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35k to spend on Lenses, any Advice

L

Leon Trinidad

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Guys, I've got a budget of 25-35K to spend on lenses, PL mount. We shoot music videos, commercials, low budget features, tv pilots. Of course I'm looking for the most bang for the buck. Any new or used lens sets, prime or zooms that you can recommend? What places do you recommend that might have something good? Thanks in advance.
 
That's about the budget for all RED zooms and primes. Here you have the most bang for the buck I suppose. (prime set is not out yet though)
 
Leon Trinidad said:
35k to spend on Lenses, any Advice
Click to expand...

Yeah. Don't be telling people what your budget is, it's a sellers market right now and suddenly a set of primes that a year ago was $15,000 is now suddenly $32,000.

Wait, for you, it's $35,000, now that everybody knows.

[edit: Apologize if I sound harsh. It's just that it's never a great idea to lay out all of your info like that]
 
set of elite primes, cooke 18-100 + set of red primes, red primes + red zooms, set of zeiss mk III superspeeds
 
Nate, no worries I know you're just looking out for a brother. I'm not going to spend my budget on a bunk deal, plus I'm not bidding on anything. Just wondering what my budget can afford compared to market prices. Thanks everyone for some ideas.
 
Great Question. I have the same question.
My budget $40,000.00 and thats it.
I understand your point Nate. But how else am i gonna get some answers from you guys.

ROSSI where you AT??
Your the GLASS GUY
I know you know your stuff inside and out.

Met Rossi @ RED DAYZ
impressive lens guy.
 
A BigLu,

thanks for the vote of confidence.

First to be said is that my personal and professional experience in Glass is mostly Still glass hands on, for over twenty years, but as far as Cine Glass, even so I do have researched and personally sponsored several tests with various lenses from well known and respected Glass manufacturers in the industry, my personal experience hands on this type of glass is limited.

However, I say this again, glass is very personal as far as for one is looking to get in the final look.


As I have several projects in the works, and the first is in the 2.5 Mills I wanted to test out every option available regardless of price, however please do note that what I'm looking for is a glass with a natural warm fill to it, sharp, but yet soft, but not to soft.

So any ways this are my deductions from the various lenses:

ARRI/ZEISS MASTER PRIMES
Price ranges from $21,870 to $30, 840
This lenses are bricks(in the same good way RED is) built to last more then you.
Big and bulky, a hand full(or two) for sure incredibly well machined, they look like something you would keep in a safe rapped in egyptian cotton at the highest tread count.
This lenses are by far the sharpest lenses I have seen, with totally absent defects, no CA, no breathing, no Vignetting, super resistant to flair from strong spot lights, and yes Super Speeds at T*1.3 you can shoot wide open all day long and Isolate your subjects like no other lens, while shooting in almost dark room with little to no light.


This lenses are by far my favorite ones and currently in the market to get a set.

ARRI/ZEISS ULTRA PRIMES (non LDS)
Price ranges from $12,860 to $32,780
This lenses are not as fast as the MP's they range from T*1.9 to T*2.1
Much smaller then the MP's, very well build as well, sharp, very little CA, no vignetting noted at time of test, and it is evident their popularity when you put your hands on one, they are a pleasure to play with, great design, but not particularly creasy about the various front element size, even so mostly at 95mm but with variation to 114mm for the 14mm and the 180mm, to 134mm for the super wide and fantastic 8R, to 156mm for the 10mm and 12mm, not a big deal at all off course, but in this matter I much prefer the uniform front element of the MP's at 114mm (not the new 150mm which is 134mm) but again I have to say the the MP's in this regard are great to deal with as far as MB's.

Note however that the LDS ULTRA PRIMES similar to the MP"S have all 104mm front element diameter with the 14mm at 114mm and the 12mm at 156mm, yeah very wide front element on this one.
Back to the UP's, this are great lenses and second on my list. , together with the:

COOKE S4/i
Price ranges from $16,250 to $26,000
This lenses are well noted in the industry for their soft look, but sometimes I fill people do confuse the fact of a lens having a soft look to those that are soft, well Cooke lenses I find them to be as sharp as the UP's but with a distinctive softer signature to it, so distinctive that one of the guys at the test lab, was able to know that they were on the camera, personally I like them a lot, not as much as the MP's but still like them a lot.

CA however was a bit more evident on this lenses, but again I'm sure I would have never noticed if was not pointed out on the lab, this are no doubt great lenses, and I do understand why Jim at RED has embrace them from the begin of their testing and apply to the RED lenses the i data system instead of the LDS of ARRI.

This lenses are to very well build and impressive piece of machined gear.
At an aperture of T*2 (minus the 300mm at T*2.8) this lenses are in the range aperture of the UP's.

Similar to the UP's this have several mesuraments variation in their front element mostly 110mm to 125mm for the 150mm, to 136 for the 180mm and the 300mm, to 156mm for the 12mm, again not a big issue but I still prefer when all possible the front diameter of the lenses is the same.
As above mentioned this are second on my list together with the ULTRA PRIMES

The Optica Elites were not available but one of the guys said that they are great lenses and what He wryly told me was nothing more then is already written here, but I definetely would like to test them out soon.
This are some among the most well known lenses on the market.


I will not talk about zooms, as for me the only zoom in the current market that I would purchase is the ARRI/ZEISS Lightweight ZOOM, nothing short of fantastic.

Now to the other lenses,

RED
Price range form $3,995 to $4,950
As we all know of all the primes only the 300mm f2.8 is out.
Based on the fact that all the Primes to come out from RED could be at par with the 300mm (even so rumors are that this lenses are been build from scratch and presumably to be even better then the 300mm).

the only RED Prime(at the moment) the 300mm is a very well build lens, solid and beautifully crafted, in both color and design, I also particularly like the support system on it, the front element at 117, is among a standard in many MB's, with a drop in filter, just as the one I'm very accostum to in the Canon super telephotos.

The RED 300mm f2.8, Prime, is a true run for the money when compared to Cine lenses like the COOKE 300mm at T*28 with a price tag of $26,000 at just over FIVE times the price tag.
The RED 300mm f2.8 is a must have, even so this lens was not at the test, I have seen this lens in more then one shoot and the results are always incredibly pleasing to watch, a lab comparison would be nice and soon to come.

If the New Primes to come, are as the 300mm f2.8 or just a little better there is wryly no reason at all why any one would be such a full as to go with any other lens in the market today, including my favorite Canon L glass of which will discuss shortly below.
So if RED had all their Primes out, I would not look further as they have proven at large with the 300mm f2.8 to be a superb piece of glass, and very sexy my add.

ARRI/ZEISS DIGI PRIMES
Since we have the B4 mount available it is a great choice to go with the DIGI PRIMES any other B4 mount lens on RED is a NONO.
Will not go in detail as I will only shot with S35, and didn't care much to research for the DIGI PRIMES more then I did, right before putting my reservations for RED, when I was then about to purchase the Viper Filmstream or the Sony 900R.


Since we do have a great option with Birger I briefly say that the CANON EF L series Glass looks incredibly sexy on the RED, especially when the RED signature Ring of the Canon L glass is visible.
This lenses are nothing short of fantastic for the RED/Birger combination and many, including my self have purchase a Birger mount and looking forward to further test the fully operational Birger unit.
Again similar to the RED glass(but in a different class, not better or warst, just totally different, still glass vs. cine glass) Canon L Glass provides an incredible value, the best to market, considering price/quality.

Canon Lenses are notorious for having a ever slitly visible warmer tone, when compared to the more clinical Nikon glass, both are very sharp lenses, in their higher end, but I do profoundly prefer the Canon L series (latest generations) to Nikon or Leica.
Even so I do have a birger mount in order, I truly look forward to the RED PRIME SET, as I believe RED is a PL mount camera from the heart and it should be used with the lenses was originally intended for.
It is obvious that there is tone of hold glass of great quality, like the ZEISS Super Speed and now Super Priced, but I would never put a pice of old technology on a brand new and so advance piece of machine like the RED, not to sound snobby, but just because to me it makes sense.


So at last, my opinion is simple.

If you can not wait(and many can't) for RED to release their Primes, then by all means get what ever you can get your hands n and start shooting.
If budget is no issue get the absolute best in today's market the "MASTER PRIMES", if not so rich, step down just a little tiny bit, to the ULTRA PRIMES or the COOKE's S4/i, or put the Birger Canon to the test, but remember to use L series glass.
BUT it is important to remember that the most important thing it is not what glass you put on your RED, just put a piece of glass, any glass, RED will still produce incredible images that will impress any Movie Goer.
What is the most important thing is the content of your story, how you tell your story, and were you choose to film your story and the people you put in your story to be told.

Only each individual can see and envision his/hers project, and He/She must make it a personal journey to the extent of fighting any elements which might try to block the ways of expression, such as going creasy for which glass to chose.

Just get what your budget dictates, and shoot away, we al be looking forward to see the results.
The only reason I did all the tests and research, and will do some more, is because I'm looking for something, a look in the lens it self for which I will do no corrections in post, I prefer to get the image right out of the camera in to the editing room with as little correction as possible, just like I have been doing in photography for years, to me there is nothing as pleasing to the eye as the Natural Organic look of a fresh image, untouched by Post corrections, there for making the image forcefully perfect.

It is obvious then creating a specific looks at times requires post, and tone of it, but again when all possible I much prefer the Organic natural look of the original capture, unless I F%#@up from the start.

*EDIT* Only COW,:ohmy: I just notice the length of the post as soon as I posted, never talk on the phone when you are posting, you loose track of time and length of post.
Ciao
 
KETCH ROSSI said:
*EDIT* Only COW,:ohmy: I just notice the length of the post as soon as I posted, never talk on the phone when you are posting, you loose track of time and length of post.
Ciao
Click to expand...

But it was worth it.... wow, that helped me. Thanks. I'm still stuck between the Master Primes and the Ultra Primes though. Master Primes = faster (1.3) and uniform front element; Ultra Primes = slower (1.9-2.1), various front element, more of them for a wider lens selection. Our lighting dept. is large enough so I'm thinking the speed won't matter all the much and I'd like the larger selection of the Ultra Primes, but would the various front element size cause any problems with matteboxes, ect.?
 
Thanks Andrew, that makes me fill less bad about how long the post is, I like to know that at list is serving its intended purpose.


One very important factor to know and keep in mind is that one of the main reasons that ARRI/ZEISS Lenses, MASTER PRIMES as well as ULTRA PRIMES LDS and non LDS, and both the LIGHTWEIGHT ZOOM and the MASTER ZOOM, are all Super color matched glass, and you can interact them together in any shoot no problem at all.

One more important thing that I love about the ARRI/ZEISS line are their MASTER DIOPTERS (which can also be used with other manufacturers lenses) this are absolutely nothing short of fantastic for getting super close to your subject of your shoot, also super color matched to specification of the MASTER PRIMES.


So you could get the MP's from the 50mm and above were the super speed are more of a great use to isolate your subjects and easily go with ULTRA PRIMES in the wide angle, all the way to the great 8R, at lower speed and no so large aperture, were at the wide angle you are more likely to want less shallow DOF as the MP's produce when shot wide open.

Off course there is also the matter of having the possibility to stop down the MP's in the wide angle like the new 14mm, but truly, there is no need to stop down this lenses, you can shoot wide open all day long and be so totally happy with it.


But remember that this are my opinions made from what I see and like when shooting with this lenses or any lenses, so you must do test for your self as well before you make such an investment in Glass, any one at any ARRI location will be more then happy to help you on that, usually rental locations could care less what do you want to do with their lenses, you pay the rental fees and off you go, but for a much more professionally well done test contact ARRI and set up something via them.

Ciao
 
Andrew McCarrick said:
But it was worth it.... wow, that helped me. Thanks. I'm still stuck between the Master Primes and the Ultra Primes though. Master Primes = faster (1.3) and uniform front element; Ultra Primes = slower (1.9-2.1), various front element, more of them for a wider lens selection. Our lighting dept. is large enough so I'm thinking the speed won't matter all the much and I'd like the larger selection of the Ultra Primes, but would the various front element size cause any problems with matteboxes, ect.?
Click to expand...

You should really pick up a MP and compare it to a UP. The MP are nearly twice the weight per lens, so if you do any handheld shots, you'll appreciate the smaller size and weight difference.

I just bought a set of LDS Ultra Primes, from 16-135, all of which have 104 mm fronts. The primary advantage of LDS primes over non LDS is the data capability, which is more or less identical to the Cooke /i lens data system. I also like the bright yellow witness marks and slightly larger barrel.

They are fabulous lenses.

Cheers,
M
 
Another note...

I'm considering the Red 18-85 as a short zoom option for occasions where I need/want a zoom over a prime, and or an option if my primes are on a job. Much better focal range than the 15-40, covering the typical range. But that will depend on the quality of the lens.

Hopefully the mechanics will be superior to the 15-40.

M
 
Mark Pedersen said:
Another note...

I'm considering the Red 18-85 as a short zoom option for occasions where I need/want a zoom over a prime, and or an option if my primes are on a job. Much better focal range than the 15-40, covering the typical range. But that will depend on the quality of the lens.

Hopefully the mechanics will be superior to the 15-40.

M
Click to expand...

Hey Mark,

The 15-40 is made by Cooke and I don't believe the 18-85 made by Red will have better mechanics.
But I do agree that the focal range is more attractive.

Emmanuel
 
Told you Rossi knew his s#%t.

Thanks I'm gonna have to read this a few time to let it soak in.

I WANT MASTER PRIMES
& an Angenuex HR 25-250 zoom
 
BigLu said:
Told you Rossi knew his s#%t.

Thanks I'm gonna have to read this a few time to let it soak in.

I WANT MASTER PRIMES
& an Angenuex HR 25-250 zoom
Click to expand...

That won't happen for $40,000...I wish it could...I'm sure you knew this, but the prices Ketch listed are per lens. Yikes.
 
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