New editing software

[laguun]

What get's me worried, is my partner always coming up with discreet, quantel and baselight, especially for it's possible 4k realtime output on 4xhdsdi, which we want to feed our projector. We would like to have some kind of clear statement of assimilate if this will indeed become an option, and if they would consider some kind editing application as an update.

iridas speedgrade, assimilate scratch, apple color and generally all software-only offerings are depending on what nvidia is doing, and they dont have upcoming 4K boards available, not even at the horizon. So even if iridas or assimilate would like to support 4k, they are limited by the graphic card offering.

furthermore, realtime fullquality debayer of 4K data isnt possible with currents speedgrade or scratch pcs.

The advantage of working in realtime with redcode native scratch can offer now, until redcode is finally allowed to be supported by the industries market leaders, is not functional in 4K.

As the 4K data has to be debayered anyhow, many houses prefer to work in 4K resolution, in order to not get nasty surprises as noise or aliasing when it is to late. With systems as clipster, quantel, baselight etc there are many choices of 4K online. Storage, luckily, is cheap these days - 4k capable 1 Terrabyte disks are now at 200 euros here.

Some important reasons for 4K online for 4K masters.
- Working 4K media with 2K monitoring is basicly onling with offline display. I made the experience once, when we showed one of our movies on a SRX 4K i had seen so far "only" on 2K and 35mm filmout - and we saw -many- issued neither i, director, producer or dp spotted on 2K or 35mm filmout.

- redcode cant be written from max/maya/xsi, fusion/combustion/nuke/flame/after effects etc, and needs to be finished at 4K uncompressed anyhow. With shows and features hitting more and more the 100% digitally processed line, this is also pretty important imho.

- for 4K editing, systems as iridas speedgrade or assimilate are obviously a poor choice right now, as they cant display full 4k and 4K noise variations are pretty hard to spot on 2K. One can, however, zoom into the image and see a quarter of it in order to judge it. 4K VFX artefacts (as key spill, tracker jitter etc) are also very hard to spot if you only see 25% resolution.

However, for 2K systems as iridas speedgrade, assimilate scratch or apple color are great tools, and apple color demonstrates that 2K/1080p online will be (or is indeed) mass market.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

I suppose, as shown in the sony SRX and the autodesk toxik comments you made, that it might be recommendable to post less FUD when you dont know exactly what you are talking about, especially when you talk on behalf of a competition system.

Laguun, you're a smart guy and you frequently post really good insightful information.

You consistently look down on SCRATCH and ASSIMILATE... yet...

...you don't own the product,
...you've never had it in your facility as an evaluation
...you've never played with it yoursef
...you've never received a formal quote from anybody within ASSIMILATE
...you've never done a RED-based project on SCRATCH

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Lucas

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Luki,

sent him an offer.

I'm sure he is interested in to smell a bit of SCRATCH.

 

[laguun]

Laguun, you're a smart guy and you frequently post really good insightful information.

Thanks, your knowledge is often insightful as well - i would even appreciate them more if you would slow down slightly on some marketing claims, but i suppose thats also an eu/us thing.

You consistently look down on SCRATCH and ASSIMILATE...

Not at all. It might be your perception. I often -especially- remark that i think that scratch is a fine piece of software.

I however think its silly to pretend that scratch is the ideal solution for all users. Or that i would be, hardwarewise, competeting with the RT 4K systems etc. Less informed reader might gain the impression that scratch can do 4K RT display or debayer etc... and when i read such posts i usually jump in. Also i do like a balanced view on the whole market. The DI marketsphere is for many reasons not dominated by scratch, and there are plenty of alternative system, with strenghts and weaknesses, as with scratch.

What i however have grown allergic to in the past 19 years in this industry is marketing bubbles. If you look at the sticky post regarding apple color this should be pretty easy to see.

...you don't own the product,

Yes, we decided against scratch in the 2007 when we were procuring our 3hrd DI seat. Might change in 2008, would be changed at once if assimilate would have a 4K rt system (in the higher $$.$$$) or a red specific competition to speedgrade HD (in the $.$$$).

...you've never had it in your facility as an evaluation

Thats true.

...you've never played with it yoursef

Wrong.
Already when assimilate debuted Scratch, and after IBC 2007 i visited users (in munich) to give it my usual testride. CC, rendertimes, responsiveness etc are high on the list. And for me looking at any DI system is a quick walkthrough, as i mainly look for the missing functions, shortcoming, quality issues, have a quick measurement i/o run etc etc. And the things i do post what scratch in fact -cant do- (as 4k debayer RT, 4K i/o etc) are easy hard facts which even wouldnt require 1st hands experience. I never criticized ergonomics or missing functions, as the things i disliked there might be only my mistake (do secondary cc and stereoscopic work together in RT would be such an example).

...you've never received a formal quote from anybody within ASSIMILATE

Oh, i have gotten many. "Formal" quotes is a funny word btw, i have talked prices with your european reseller/distributors (or do you sell direct to europe bypassing them?) on phone an face to face, with your sales people at various tradeshows (including nacho) and the offered prices were, lets say, quite variable.

I always refer to the highest prices. But if you insist, i also would gladly get an PM from you with an "formal" offer from assimilate USA. Software only please, systems with fast raids, quadro 45 and 55 sdi are already here. Next investment is Q3/Q4 2008.

...you've never done a RED-based project on SCRATCH

Thats true, but so far we won -every- RED postpitch against -any- house which offered scratch, beginning with Kinowelt in October.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Lucas

I am afraid that my english isnt good enough to understand the exact meaning of this (its my 3hrd language) - but i sure do hope that you will make it to ibc this year (or we to nab) in order to meet for an aftershow drink.

 

[satishkrr]

iridas speedgrade, assimilate scratch, apple color and generally all software-only offerings are depending on what nvidia is doing, and they dont have upcoming 4K boards available, not even at the horizon. So even if iridas or assimilate would like to support 4k, they are limited by the graphic card offering.

furthermore, realtime fullquality debayer of 4K data isnt possible with currents speedgrade or scratch pcs.

The advantage of working in realtime with redcode native scratch can offer now, until redcode is finally allowed to be supported by the industries market leaders, is not functional in 4K.

As the 4K data has to be debayered anyhow, many houses prefer to work in 4K resolution, in order to not get nasty surprises as noise or aliasing when it is to late. With systems as clipster, quantel, baselight etc there are many choices of 4K online. Storage, luckily, is cheap these days - 4k capable 1 Terrabyte disks are now at 200 euros here.

Some important reasons for 4K online for 4K masters.
- Working 4K media with 2K monitoring is basicly onling with offline display. I made the experience once, when we showed one of our movies on a SRX 4K i had seen so far "only" on 2K and 35mm filmout - and we saw -many- issued neither i, director, producer or dp spotted on 2K or 35mm filmout.

- redcode cant be written from max/maya/xsi, fusion/combustion/nuke/flame/after effects etc, and needs to be finished at 4K uncompressed anyhow. With shows and features hitting more and more the 100% digitally processed line, this is also pretty important imho.

- for 4K editing, systems as iridas speedgrade or assimilate are obviously a poor choice right now, as they cant display full 4k and 4K noise variations are pretty hard to spot on 2K. One can, however, zoom into the image and see a quarter of it in order to judge it. 4K VFX artefacts (as key spill, tracker jitter etc) are also very hard to spot if you only see 25% resolution.

However, for 2K systems as iridas speedgrade, assimilate scratch or apple color are great tools, and apple color demonstrates that 2K/1080p online will be (or is indeed) mass market.

hi laguun im working on a red one project doing my post in smoke need ya help plz let me know your email so that i can get in touch with u

thanks