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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

gamma settings

L

Levan Bakhia

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hi, first of all I appologise if this has been covered very clearly, but I was seaching post, and I found some threads that somewhat discuss some aspects of the curves, but it would be great, if someone (very kind someone) takes time and tries to explain the gamma settings from basics to what we need it for and when should we be using what. I am sure that from thouthands of red owners I am not the only one confused here. I do not have this background to understand it, but if you do please explain.

in RedCine under project setting there are two pull down menuse, one with CAMERA RGB as default and another with gamma settings. So what are those, I would appreciate a more non scientific explanations of it, especially from practical point of view, when and why should I choose each of those setting, and combination of settings. I hope this is not too hard to explain, if there any source (a web page maybe) were it is explained, please refer to it.

Hope this is not very stupid question, and hope someone can answer it. :*) thanks in advance
 
Hello,

I'm afraid people @ RED don't care explaning these things and no user manual exist for this product. Like if REDCINE would be a BETA programm for insiders techies.

Customer support is "Help yourself!!!"

The only thread I've read about gamma use could be this one :

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9592

Too bad you have to find answers in a forum or by learning in the hard way.

Have a nice day.

Patrick
 
Wow Patrick, you sound a little bitter towards Red. They help out as much as they can. If you need help that bad just call them up and ask for it or find someone on these boards. That's what Reduser is here for.
 
Yeah your right. But Levan asked the same questions I did 3 months ago, I found my way out, but nothing changed for the new commer.

I'm grateful to RED team to have made such a great product. It always could be better but I won't ask so much.

Have a nice week.

Pat
 
lets not turn this thread into discussion of if red team is helpful or not, this is not what interests me and others as i think. if anyone including red team has any info to share we will all appreciate. i will read the threads but at some point i agree that issues like this should come with manuals and documented explanations and not just quick replie. thanks to anyone who did and will sharr their thoughts and knowledge.
 
OK, I just read the threads, and the blog in the thread and I want to say that there are limited things I understood. I know that maybe for 20% of the Red users it makes sense, but I am sure for the other it doesn't. I hope the approach is not "whoever can not understand, doesn't need to know".

I am thinking of even asking a more specific question, but I really can not, my understanding of all this is so basic that I can not even start thinking about what to ask. So I guess I will try to find out more about basics of gamma and color spaces and then ask questions. I think if I will understand how it works, I will be able to put it down in words that other newcomers will understand easily as well.
 
May I suggest some basic reading on colors and color grading first? It will really help to get into all of this. Actually, the manual for Apple's Color (in case you have it) is not bad. Then there is the book on "Color Correction for Digital Video" by Hullfish and Fowler (CMP), which is less program centric.

First of all you need to know what distribution medium you'll end up with. BT.709 for example is the world-wide standard for HDTV and is currently used by Blu-Ray as well.

I think RED is not talking too much about this, since they adhere to widely used standards in the industry in this field.

Regards,

Uli
 
thanks nomad :*) I am on poynton's page now reading the FAQ. BT.709 is the same as REC 709 or not?

Also, before I go ahead, I want to understand one thing, in Redcine, when I compare different gamas, say REC 709 and custom 1.0 then under color tab, by manipulating controls I can end up with same visual results. At least very close to each other, say 1.0 is more black then rec 709 but then I can tweak both, I can make 709 look like linear light or vise versa. So what is the point?

At this moment, my delivery is to be on PAL tv broadcast, so should I start with rec709? Also how do I know that my monitor is rec 709? or is it that any monitor is rec709?

sorry if all these questions are so basic and boring.
 
oh, and manual for apple's color did you mean color- the software in final cut studio?
 
Yes, I was referring to "Color", the new grading software Apple aquired last year (ex Final Touch).

BT.709 is the same as rec709 and the standard for HDTV. Even if close, it's not identical to CCIR601 which is the standard for digital broadcast in SD.

Of course, you'll need a calibrated monitor for any color correction. These can reach from roughly 2 K$ (like Eizo), via Quato (about 3.5 K to 5K), TvLogic (about 8 K) up to even more than 20 K (Sony, eCinema).

And your questions are welcome, that's what forums are meant to be.

Regards,

Uli
 
Levan Bakhia said:
oh, and manual for apple's color did you mean color- the software in final cut studio?
Click to expand...

I have to be one of those that also admit that the "gamma" issue is one that causes me headaches as well. The more I read, the less I feel I understand. Yes, I've read poyton, but short of digging very deep into the math, where my eyes start to glaze over, I'm trying to figure it out.

I'm not an ignorant guy, but this topic makes me feel like one.

From what I've read, most of this "gamma correction" has been going on behind the scenes for years without my notice. And things "magically" just appeared correctly, more or less, wherever I took them.

One of the biggest issues that I have trouble wrapping my head around is the one of when a gamma correction is "baked in" i.e the pixel values are literally raised or remapped or when it's display/software and it just APPEARS funky.

What concerns me most about Redcine is outputting files in ignorance. While I'm sure, that I could get a file to "look right and output it" that's crazy as I really don't have a basis for any of my actions.

Assuming that I am for the most part never going to go to film, and likely Rec 709, would camera RGB and Rec 709 be the "best" output choice?
 
nomad said:
And your questions are welcome, that's what forums are meant to be.



Uli
Click to expand...

I appreciate that. :)


I have one question. Let's say I output with camera RGB and rec 709 and do my initial raw corrections in redcine. But what about secondary color grading in Color for example. How well it will hold? what kind of format should I output with do have more grading freedom later?
 
K.Berlin said:
dpx iso 320 exposure -0.40 will give you the best dpx files...but then your material has to be shot optimal for this settings in camera

read this

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9592
Click to expand...

I thought that -0.4 EV was just for display purposes to "match" highlights in Rec 709 display and RedCine output to log -- i.e., you dial in -0.4 just for viewing on LCD, but not use that value while outputting files from Raw->some log format.

Am I missing something?
 
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