I've got some Birger mount questions

[Ivan Egorov]

So,
What exactly does the Birger mount do?
What can it do, and what it can not?
Which features are enabled, and which are planned?
Does it ship? If not, when is it going to happen?

Thanks for any answers

 

[Bill Goehring]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6149

 

[Ben Goldenberg]

maybe he didn't feel like sifting though nine thousand posts, maybe someone can sum it all up!

 

[Steve Sanacore]

So,
What exactly does the Birger mount do?
What can it do, and what it can not?
Which features are enabled, and which are planned?
Does it ship? If not, when is it going to happen?

Thanks for any answers

My understanding of the 'Canon EOS' version of the Birger mount is:

Replaces the PL mount on the RED body and allows Canon EOS lenses to be mounted and used with full control of aperture and focus electronically. As any Canon user knows, there is no aperture ring on any of the EF lenses and some won't even focus without electronic control.

As an owner of many EF lenses, I am awaiting positive reviews of this mount and am very excited about it's possibilities.

 

[Omnius]

There you go.
No sifting needed

 

[Mark Phelan]

Any update or news available for the Birger Nikon mount status?

 

[Bill Goehring]

Nope.

 

[Michael Hastings]

My understanding of the 'Canon EOS' version of the Birger mount is:

Replaces the PL mount on the RED body and allows Canon EOS lenses to be mounted and used with full control of aperture and focus electronically. As any Canon user knows, there is no aperture ring on any of the EF lenses and some won't even focus without electronic control.

As an owner of many EF lenses, I am awaiting positive reviews of this mount and am very excited about it's possibilities.

Let me add that the other key component of the Birger concept is that these Canon lenses typically have several thousand "steps" in focusing from near to far and therefore it is possible to overcome the most severe limitation of still lenses - that they don't have much focus "throw" i.e. distance that you turn the focus ring to go from near to far, and thus are not as accurate as cine lenses. With the Birger those steps can be "mapped" to the knob so that it is more precise. In addition, either at the beginning or eventually - you should be able to program "stops" so that you could set it for focus point A to be at 10 feet and focus point B at 5 feet and smoothly move between them with out having to worry about overshooting - or just quickly go from point to point.

Also, once RED implements the Lens Data functions, you will get lens data i.e. focal length, focus point, iris setting, etc. which exists in all EF lenses but only exists in the most modern (and expensive) cine lenses.

 

[Joe Vinson]

The latest word from Erik at Birger is he plans to start shipping early reservations (Canon only) on February 29. It should be noted, however, that his previously stated deadlines (on confirming/processing orders, for example) have not been altogether timely. So... grain of salt, for sure.

Also, the mount will come with an optional Bluetooth remote for focus and aperture control. We haven't heard many details, but it doesn't sound like it will be a follow focus replacement (i.e. no marking rings, hard stops, etc.).

EDIT: Listen to whatever AquaVideoRed says. He's gotten to test the prototype.

 

[Ivan Egorov]

Thanks for the replies!

Lens Data...whoa, that would be KING for vfx (I guess thats been said by lots of people already, but nonetheless). Will that be a software update to turn that option on (on RED)?

I've also heard things about autofocus, how can it be possible?
I will be shooting some sports, too, so hearing about autofocus gets my head turned

 

[Joel Kaye]

In addition, either at the beginning or eventually - you should be able to program "stops" so that you could set it for focus point A to be at 10 feet and focus point B at 5 feet and smoothly move between them with out having to worry about overshooting - or just quickly go from point to point.

Also, once RED implements the Lens Data functions, you will get lens data i.e. focal length, focus point, iris setting, etc. which exists in all EF lenses but only exists in the most modern (and expensive) cine lenses.

If that stuff happens the Birger will actually be a superior solution to Cine Lenses. When you add in the bluetooth wireless control what's left? Breathing on zoom lenses... ok, I'll give you that. But most SLR primes don't breath much. Being able to adjust your focus throw puts you into the same league as guys with nice remote FF units.

I'm prepared to be proven wrong... but I think you're going to see people with big dollar lenses trying to make arguments that their images won't back up. I'm not saying FF units with their cool distance readouts aren't really nifty, but considering what they cost...

EDIT: Hey Aqua, did you see what Doug Underdahl is doing with the Nikon mount? He's leaving RED's adjustable backfocus on the camera. Any reason Birger isn't doing this but chose the shim setup instead?

http://www.youtube.com/user/dlunderdahl

 

[Joe Vinson]

Hey Aqua, did you see what Doug Underdahl is doing with the Nikon mount? He's leaving RED's adjustable backfocus on the camera. Any reason Birger isn't doing this but chose the shim setup instead?

As I understand it, the Canon EOS mount has a shorter focal flange distance than any other mount — including PL — so you couldn't just use the the PL mount as a starting point. The Birger mount, however, could conceivably be used as the "base plate" for many other mounts.

 

[Joel Kaye]

As I understand it, the Canon EOS mount has a shorter focal flange distance than any other.

Ah. bummer. I guess he could for the Nikon mount when he makes it though.

 

[Paul Leeming]

If that stuff happens the Birger will actually be a superior solution to Cine Lenses. When you add in the bluetooth wireless control what's left? Breathing on zoom lenses... ok, I'll give you that. But most SLR primes don't breath much. Being able to adjust your focus throw puts you into the same league as guys with nice remote FF units.

Actually, with the addition of an external lens motor the Birger should be able to do breathing compensation as well, by subtly zooming in or out to negate it.

So yes, I am eagerly awaiting my Birger mount....

HTH

Paul

 

[Michael Hastings]

You need the space for the connectors

You need the space for the connectors

If that stuff happens the Birger will actually be a superior solution to Cine Lenses. When you add in the bluetooth wireless control what's left? Breathing on zoom lenses... ok, I'll give you that. But most SLR primes don't breath much. Being able to adjust your focus throw puts you into the same league as guys with nice remote FF units.

I'm prepared to be proven wrong... but I think you're going to see people with big dollar lenses trying to make arguments that their images won't back up. I'm not saying FF units with their cool distance readouts aren't really nifty, but considering what they cost...

EDIT: Hey Aqua, did you see what Doug Underdahl is doing with the Nikon mount? He's leaving RED's adjustable backfocus on the camera. Any reason Birger isn't doing this but chose the shim setup instead?

http://www.youtube.com/user/dlunderdahl

Canon EF is 44 - Nikon is 46.5 mm - enough to make a "sliver" metal adapter but not a big difference. Basically Doug's is a "sliver" mount similar to when I used the Contax/Yashica to EOS adapter on the space shuttle shoot for my 300mm Zeiss C/Y mount lens. Since these are manual only lenses you don't need the electronics. With the birger Canon or Nikon mount you need the length so you have space for the connectors for power, RS232 to the camera, and to attach the cables for the knobs.

Also, breathing compensation through zoom control has been mentioned as doable and in the works both with the Birger mount (and the addition of an outboard zoom motor) and the CVB? zoom, iris, focus motors/grip handle combination.


For a lot of my underwater stuff I only need the iris to work, and for a lot of nature or documentary stuff the focus just has to work decently - not super smooth - even though based on what I know about the precision of the motors in the lenses, I think it actually will work quite smoothly. I agree that we probably aren't going to give up much to the big dollar lenses, and as software and other features come out, we may well exceed their capabilities. A lot of people don't believe that and since I'm from Missouri - the Show Me State - I'm okay with that. We'll know when we know, but I'm pretty comfortable with this approach.

But like everyone else - I WANT IT SOON!!!!

 

[Joel Kaye]

But like everyone else - I WANT IT SOON!!!!

Yeah, FedEX just dropped off a very expensive paperweight yesterday at my place. I'm hopeful Birger pulls it off soon. If he eventually pulls of breathing compensation that would be a mind blower for me.

The bluetooth remote functionality is scheduled for later, right? Or is it going to be enable from the beginning?

 

[Joe Vinson]

I assumed the Bluetooth remote would be fully functional on arrival (since it wasn't the issue holding up progress), but I don't think Erik's said for sure.

I just got the "ready to ship" email from RED, but I'm also going to be in the paperweight business until my Birger mount arrives.

::crossing my fingers for an update on riday::

 

[Michael Hastings]

Time to start praying to the Birger gods.

Time to start praying to the Birger gods.

I assumed the Bluetooth remote would be fully functional on arrival (since it wasn't the issue holding up progress), but I don't think Erik's said for sure.

I just got the "ready to ship" email from RED, but I'm also going to be in the paperweight business until my Birger mount arrives.

::crossing my fingers for an update on riday::

Time to start praying to the Birger gods.

 

[Joe Carney]

The Birger has the potential to be as revolutionary as the RED itself in terms of cost/benefit. I sincerely hope Birger gets them out sooner than later.

If Birger decides to go into the 35mm adaptor business, they would put Letus and Cinevate out of it.

 

[Nils J. Nesse]

The Birger has the potential to be as revolutionary as the RED itself in terms of cost/benefit. I sincerely hope Birger gets them out sooner than later.

I agree, it's very exciting.

If Birger decides to go into the 35mm adaptor business, they would put Letus and Cinevate out of it.

I disagree. The Birger lens mount costs about the same as the complete Cinevate/Letus adapter systems. It's a different market.

But I think I've read that the Birger mount could be used on an adapter (like Cinevate), to get focus/iris control. That sounds more interesting to me, than Birger trying to make another $1000 DOF-adapter.