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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Menus visible in HD-SDI output?

I think every ENG/EFP camera made has the option of adding character output (or not) to the external video feed, yes? This is the same functionality we'd like here. To add or not add the menus/overlays to the external HD-SDI monitoring.

It would be work, certainly. The 1280x848 is used intelligently, keeping all readouts and displays OFF of the main picture area. To fit that in an HD-SDI feed you'd either have to embed it in a 1920x1080 signal, or you'd have to shuffle the menus and display readout into the main picture area, and probably make them transparent. But it's a workflow we need; the jib arm/crane/steadicam are just a few examples.
 
visceralpsyche said:
Clean HD-SDI or Preview feed would make my day with my clients :)

As in, nothing but image so it can be recorded clean.
Click to expand...

Are you certain you want this though? Someone from Red correct me if I'm wrong, but the HD-SDI/Preview feed isn't exactly representative of full quality; it's more of a "quick 'n' dirty" de-bayer system, mostly useful for framing. More like a "video tap" than a final output.

I haven't put this to the test but I would suspect that recording the live HD-SDI output wouldn't hold a candle to the quality that would be generated by going through RedCine and exporting the footage as full-quality, with the best-quality de-mosaic, etc.

Of course I may be wrong, but I thought the intention of these live outputs was mainly as a "preview", not as final recordable quality.
 
Menus on HD-SDI

Menus on HD-SDI

Barry Green said:
I think every ENG/EFP camera made has the option of adding character output (or not) to the external video feed, yes? This is the same functionality we'd like here. To add or not add the menus/overlays to the external HD-SDI monitoring.

It would be work, certainly. The 1280x848 is used intelligently, keeping all readouts and displays OFF of the main picture area. To fit that in an HD-SDI feed you'd either have to embed it in a 1920x1080 signal, or you'd have to shuffle the menus and display readout into the main picture area, and probably make them transparent. But it's a workflow we need; the jib arm/crane/steadicam are just a few examples.
Click to expand...

Setup menus are available on many other cameras yes, but waveforms and histograms no. I understand what you are asking for in the general sense, but lets back up and understand specifically what it is that you are asking for on remote operation. We are always open for suggestions to improve.

List please ............. Needed..........Nice to have........Not needed


You already have -

Timecode
Look Around
Record Area
Safe Title
Safe Action
Clip Name
Record Indicator
False Color (Exposure)
Dual Zebras
Focus Assist Graph
 
For me the issue is that some of us want to use on-board monitors other than the Red LCD. Me and my cameramen are used to looking at a Panasonic BT-LH900, so that is what we put on the camera. Losing all the useful information at the bottom of the lcd is a bit of a hardship, since I always have to walk around the back of the camera to check the status display.

The priority info I need to see is:

format, framerate, temp, media, power, clip number, a 'recording' indicator.

Just basic text stuff.

Why can you put graphics on the HDMI but not the HDSDI?

Does anyone make a reasonable HDMI to HDSDI converter?
 
There are some graphics on the HDSDI. The problem is the frame size. The HDMI output is 1280x848. That doesn't work on HDSDI, where they're limited to 1280x720.

Red would have to either redesign the HDSDI output to embed it within a 1920x1080 signal, or they'd have to redo their graphics to overlay everything within the 1280x720.

Or, potentially, they could make a toggle switch that lets us choose what portion of the 1280x848 frame we want to see. If I could just push the joystick down and get the bottom menus, and then push it back up to get the middle, well, heck, that'd be pretty good right there.
 
What about SD for the VTR guy?
The one and only time I've tried a downconverter I had no luck. I also see that the 720p is 50p and my Panasonics display this no problem as "PAL"...
But what of the VTR guy on the commercial set? What of the run n' gun with a DV clamshell/ What about cheap monitors to sprinkle around the set for the director, puppeteers, crane operator, sound guy, etc.? What about cheap wireless via a Modulous?
Is there a recommended downconverter that the Red Team endorses?
Cheers,
Harry
 
harryclark said:
What about SD for the VTR guy?
The one and only time I've tried a downconverter I had no luck. I also see that the 720p is 50p and my Panasonics display this no problem as "PAL"...
But what of the VTR guy on the commercial set? What of the run n' gun with a DV clamshell/ What about cheap monitors to sprinkle around the set for the director, puppeteers, crane operator, sound guy, etc.? What about cheap wireless via a Modulous?
Is there a recommended downconverter that the Red Team endorses?
Cheers,
Harry
Click to expand...
Same question here about downconversion...

Sim video just anounced they would be doing a breakoutbox with downconverter :
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9277

Not heard of anything else for now...

Nils.
 
harryclark said:
I also see that the 720p is 50p…
Click to expand...

The HD-SDI is switchable between 50p and 59.94p

I've used down-converters from Evertz, AJA and Redbyte, and all work fine.
 
Barry Green said:
Are you certain you want this though? Someone from Red correct me if I'm wrong, but the HD-SDI/Preview feed isn't exactly representative of full quality; it's more of a "quick 'n' dirty" de-bayer system, mostly useful for framing. More like a "video tap" than a final output.

I haven't put this to the test but I would suspect that recording the live HD-SDI output wouldn't hold a candle to the quality that would be generated by going through RedCine and exporting the footage as full-quality, with the best-quality de-mosaic, etc.

Of course I may be wrong, but I thought the intention of these live outputs was mainly as a "preview", not as final recordable quality.
Click to expand...
Oh I totally agree with you Barry, and have been trying to convince my clients of exactly that, but the Japanese seem used to a video feed based workflow - so what they want, I try to give, since "the client is always right" and they pay my bills :)

On the plus side, they really like the 720p image quality even with the overlays, so the low quality preview debayer seems to be pretty good for them. I guess compared to your average Sony camera it would look pretty good though, what with the 35mm sensor size and fantastic optics!! :shiftyph34r:

Cheers,

Paul
 
Thanks Nick.
;) Kind of red-faced here...
Sorry, I was working today. I mentioned this to my AC who said that's how they eventually solved it; I could not find the menu where you switch between 50 and 59.94 but I see it in the ops manual. I'll have a look tomorrow.
I've been holding off on buying an AJA box till now, but I guess I'll go ahead...
skip,
do you really think we'll live long enough for our friends in the playback department to migrate to HD? ;)
Cheers,
Harry
 
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