Auto iris feature?

[Arthur Levy]

Has there been any advancement on an auto iris feature? With the Birger smart mounts coming soon, auto iris will be a welcomed feature to work with both B4 HD lenses and 35mm still lenses. Am I the only one that would like this feature?

 

[Steve Gibby]

I don't believe an auto iris feature was ever planned for RED ONE by RED. For quick iris values in mobile situations I've been using zebra, with accurate results. If you have more time, the histogram can also be used. Or you can use both. Either way, iris will need to manually racked, which can be done quickly and effectively. I haven't used a hand held light meter in over five months of shooting with RED ONE, though most of what I shoot is in natural light.

The Canon Birger mount will reportedly have some irising capabilities with EOS lenses. The extent of that remains to be tested.

I've been using B4 HD EFP zooms on my REDs for months now, with the RED B4 adaptor, and the last few months now, with the RED EVF and RED Drive. I'm also beta testing cables from RED to connect B4 HD zooms to the 12v/RS232 bus on RED ONE. Power zoom and record button are enabled to the lens, but irising is manual.

RED ONE already has electronic tools to measure what the iris should be set at (Zebra, histogram). Do I think auto-iris is a useful feature for some types of shooting? Yes - for fast moving and fast light level change shooting of certain subject matter. An example: through the years I've shot a lot of professional surfing (and other water and snow sports) for television, using high end HD and SD camera systems. Though interviews and creative b-roll for those shows (non-ocean framings) is shot manual iris, all surfing action is shot using auto iris, and naturally manual focus. The reason? In sunlight, the bloom of the white water as the waves break can only be irised automatically. Attempts to manually rack iris with each wave breaking are met with failure - unless you're highly practiced at it - and even then its a real challenge.

In December our GibCor crew shot big wave surfing for a week with three of our REDs in Hawaii. In helicopter and in-water shooting of surfing required manual setting of iris to the brightest flash of white water in the waves to avoid clipping. If you do that shooting RAW, you're generally safe from clipping. For the most part, that strategy worked fine for the water and helicopter cameras. I directed the shooting and shot the long lens land-based camera. My kit for that included RED #8, RED EVF, RED Drive, Element EVF mount, Miller 55 tripod, and alternate usage of an Optimo 24-290 zoom, and a RED 300 tele. In tracking fast moving objects like surfers, in bright light flashing environments like breaking waves, you're constantly reframing, zooming, focusing (forget an AC - you rack it yourself based on visual focus), and racking iris (again by yourself) - all the while keeping framing and follow of the subject perfect. With the cine-style lenses I used (Optimo 12x and RED 300) there are three gear rings to rack/adjust constantly - all the way through each wave followed. Again, you do all this by yourself. In between wave shots I was constantly shooting creative b-roll framed up and down the beach - a totally different style of shooting.

Narrative cinema types used to slower environments and the use of focus pullers would be absolutely lost in this shooting environment. So would EFP style shooters who haven't developed the simultaneous multi-tasking skills to work alone in this style.

How did my shots come out? Spot on for each parameter - iris, focus, framing, following, composition. I have a lot of experience shooting these types of shots, so I was able to get the shots. I don't share this info with the forum to get pats on the back, but rather to open minds about the synthesis and convergence of shooting styles that is now enabled by RED ONE. The camera can be used in tons of ways beyond narrative cinema - and very effectively by a single person who knows what they're doing.

What would have made my job a lot easier for those shooting days? Auto-iris. That would have been one less gear ring to deal with. Will we see auto iris on RED ONE at some point in the future? Who knows - but it won't be on non-electronic cine lenses, that's for sure. Is auto-iris just for prosumers and hobbyists? Absolutely not, as I've illustrated above. To reach even further, is auto focus just for amateur photographers? Absolutely not. Auto focus is used widely by pro photographers. When I shoot sports with my DSLR system I almost always use auto focus. If pro photographers and pro videographers use some auto features to shoot, and many of them are now using RED ONE, and RED ONE's technology is closest to their equipment, why not some auto features on RED ONE - starting with auto iris to electronic-capable lenses? If traditional cine-style shooters wanted to use RED ONE all manual, fine, do so. If crossover shooters wanted to go with a part-auto workflow, fine, do so. The huge number of us who shoot both styles would then have a wide choice of shooting options - which would further spread the utility of RED ONE.

I can appreciate that traditional film shooters come from an all-manual or nearly all-manual field workflow. I've shot all-manual for vast amounts of my career. But I've also shot part auto and part manual as described above for tons of productions. I see the value in both approaches, depending on the project needs.

I can also appreciate RED's attempt to keep RED ONE an essentially manual camera system. That said, RED ONE is closest in technology to a DSLR, next closest to a TV/video camera, and least close to a film camera. DSLR cameras have an option to operate in all manual or part manual part auto modes, as do professional TV/video cameras. I think that since most cine lenses are non-electronic RED chose the non-auto route, although they did go for the "i" data electronic connection in the RED lenses (except the 300). So why not take the further step and enable auto iris with the "i" enabled RED lenses?

What's my ideal lens for shooting surfing or other similar rapid light changing environments as I described above? A 35mm lens with the same form factor as the B4 HD EFP zoom lenses that I've used to nail those types of shots over the years - complete with power from the RED ONE 12v/RS232 bus to an onboard servo zoom motor with hand strap, the same switches on the bottom of this 35mm lens that switch from servo to manual for zoom, auto to manual for iris, and naturally focus would remain manual by racking the lens barrel - no focus puller wanted or needed in this workflow. If wanted for cine-style projects, in manual mode, the lens could be used like a normal cine lens, with a FF, MB, etc. For EFP projects, no MB (unless you wanted to use one), no FF, servo motor, hand grip on servo if hand held, and servo-zoom control unit on tripod handle if on sticks.

I've been nailing focus quickly with RED ONE by myself, even at wide open apertures, using 2x magnification and racking the focus myself. In the shooting environment described above, apertures are generally around f8 so critical focus is easily and quickly achieved if you know what you're doing.

If someone makes the 35mm hybrid lens I described above, please don't make it cost $60k. If it was priced around $20K you'd sell a million of them...

Nobody should take any offense at the workflow described above or the suggestions I've made. All 35mm digital cinema shooting doesn't have to involve traditional cine-style lenses, accessories, and techniques. With media and style convergence there is a definite multiple-genre market for hybrid 35mm powered lenses that look and act like B4 HD zooms. If RED doesn't make them, I hope someone else does soon.

Open your minds and "think outside the (matte) box". :gun:

 

[Ken Willinger]

I'd love a 35mm hybrid of the Fujinon 13X4.5 lens. That lens rocks.

 

[Steve Gibby]

I'd love a 35mm hybrid of the Fujinon 13X4.5 lens. That lens rocks.

A business alliance of GibCor's owns most of top-of-the-line Fujinon B4 2/3" HD EFP/ENG zooms: 22x7.3, 13x4.5, 40x9.7, and others. I've been shooting with his 22x7.3 and 13x4.5 lenses on my RED cameras for months now. I have the RED B4 adaptor, RED EVF, Element EVF mount, and RED Drive to complete the mobile EFP kit.

I agree - IMO the Fujinon 13x4.5 is the best wide angle B4 2/3" HD EFP/ENG zoom available. As you said, a 35mm version of a lens with the size and functionality of that lens would be incredible. :w00t:

 

[MikeHedge]

Gibby you rock.

 

[Russ Fill]

Back to what will the Birger lens mount do. It will allow you to use your 35mm still camera lenses (Canon EOS) to be used on the Red and hopfully use the focus feature but the iris feature on those lenses only adjust in 1/3rd stops so any rack iris is not going to work.

 

[Arthur Levy]

It would be nice to have the Supergrip for both B4 lenses and the Birger smart
mount. Can anyone for RED comment on the status of the Supergrip?

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Great post, Gibby.

Open your minds and "think outside the (matte) box". :gun:

Heh heh, nice one.