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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Rumor that Apple will sell Final Cut & Pro Apps

Would anybody notice if Apple releases a new compositor?

Nuke is so good and it's being run by such great people I can't find a reason to care if Apple is working on something or not. I can't imagine Apple doing better. I can't see a reason for Apple to develop, test and push a competitor when that same time could be put into motion and other prosumer apps.
 
rgdfilmsRED said:
I think its time for me to build a Hackintosh..
Click to expand...

Do it right and it's the best money you'll ever spend on a computer.

Quad Core Core 2 Architecture pushing 3.6Ghz Daily

4Gigs of DDR2-1000 @ 1200

4Tbs of Seagate space and counting

Smashing a Mac Pro in all quadrants including GPU... for half the price.

Leopard tomorrow.

On Topic -- Even if it happens I doubt FCP will go away. Speculation and Worry makes brains hurt! :D
 
im.thatoneguy said:
Would anybody notice if Apple releases a new compositor?

Nuke is so good and it's being run by such great people I can't find a reason to care if Apple is working on something or not. I can't imagine Apple doing better. I can't see a reason for Apple to develop, test and push a competitor when that same time could be put into motion and other prosumer apps.
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Hmm...

Nuke costs (minimum) £2250.

Shake costs £330.

Yeah, I'd notice if Apple released a new compositor. And I'd imagine that the reason to test and push a competitor to another product is 1) They already make a competitor to that other product and 2) They want to continue serving their Pro community (you know, the one's who buy all their Pro Apps?)
 
But unlike Shake Apple would have to actually spend money on it.

Shake is like free money for Apple. $400 abandonware is atually somewhat steep.

All they have to do is print the CD and put it in a Box. It already was profitable. I'm sure it's already payed itself off.

I just can't see the bleeding edge compositor market looking all that friendly right now when you're minting cash and selling a "good enough" tool to the mass market.
 
I'd say that's bad logic.

Apple paid a lot of money for Shake and all they've really done with it is sell it cheaper. One or two features have turned up in Final Cut Studio, but that's hardly what they bought it for.

Your argument seems to be that, because another company has a product that is very good, Apple will just not bother to compete. In which case, why would they with any of their other products?
 
Stephen Webb said:
I'd say that's bad logic.
Your argument seems to be that, because another company has a product that is very good, Apple will just not bother to compete. In which case, why would they with any of their other products?
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History shows that in general, Apple will usually compete by buying the company with the very good product and dropping the price by about 50% on the first release and 75% thereafter, on the notion that this will sell more computers and corner the market. This strategy has proven to be somewhat successful for them, although many of us are not particularly sure that it has benfitted the industry in the long run (take away competition and you take away choice, innovation, and collaborative development). Out of all current Apple "pro" products, only a select few were developed at Apple. Final Cut, Color, Cinema Tools, DVD Studio, Logic, and Shake were all acquired by corporate acquisitions - as was Filemaker. And some others, like Motion, were basically outgrowths of some of those acquisitions and the programming teams they inherited.
 
Stephen Webb said:
Apple paid a lot of money for Shake and all they've really done with it is sell it cheaper.
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Ahhhhhh .... totally disagree. I have used Shake for a LONG time.

But, one thing we can all agree on, it is OFFICIALLY "EOL". It's development days are GONE.

Still works GREAT - used on TONS of features EVERY DAY - a true workhorse.

But I try to always bet on the JOCKEY not the HORSE. I like companies and products with GREAT future roadmaps - RED, AJA, ASSIMILATE, NUKE, ADOBE, etc.
 
Offhollywood said:
But I try to always bet on the JOCKEY not the HORSE. I like companies and products with GREAT future roadmaps - RED, AJA, ASSIMILATE, NUKE, ADOBE, etc.
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"One of these things is not like the other.... one of these things... doesn't belong....."

Offhollywood said:
But I try to always bet on the JOCKEY not the HORSE. I like companies and products with GREAT future roadmaps - RED, AJA, ASSIMILATE, THE FOUNDRY, ADOBE, etc.
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There fixed it for ya. :clown2:
 
At this point, I can present ironclad proof doubt that Apple is NOT going to sell its Pro Apps division.

They just introduced Aperture 2 with enormous improvements. A big highlight is integration with iPhoto, iWork and even iPod/iPhone.

You don't tie your products MORE into the Apple way of doing things if you're about to sell the division.

And the rumor doesn't make sense, anyway. Apple doesn't need the money and the Pro Apps sell millions of dollars of Macs every year.

And I think some of you are being less than fair to Apple. Final Cut Pro would not even exist if Apple hadn't taken over the flagging project from Macromedia.

I probably feel this way because I could not afford the higher professional prices you guys pay, being basically a hobbyist, but I love what Apple has done to make the pro apps more accessible to someone like me, who has $1,000 but who could not afford $10,000.

Shake seems to be following the same pattern as Logic. They buy the company, lower the price, make it Mac-only and start working very, very hard on reworking the user interface to make it "Apple". It takes a year or two of complete silence, where guys like you worry their hearts out, and then an almost totally reworked version comes out.

This has happened with the new Logic Pro, which was introduced only a few months ago, and will happen with Shake. You just need a bit more patience.

But I will admit that from the professional point of view, it would be nice to have a road map so you know they are doing this without having to rely on blind faith in Apple and Steve.

On the other hand, consider a company that does have a road map: Microsoft. How often have they managed to actually deliver on what they've promised?

D
 
David Dennis said:
I probably feel this way because I could not afford the higher professional prices you guys pay, being basically a hobbyist, but I love what Apple has done to make the pro apps more accessible to someone like me, who has $1,000 but who could not afford $10,000.
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Peple keep saying "Thank god for FinalCut because if it went away I couldn't afford to edit." but...

FCP: $1300
Adobe Production Suite: $1700 (which includes Photoshop Extended a $1000 value).
Avid XpressPro: $1500 (Note has no motion or stand alone audio app)
Avid MediaComposer: $4500

Now I will say that having a 3way race has been great for competition but when FCP was first introduced firewire capture of DV was still this new and intrigueing possibility. With the explosion of DV it was inevitable for prices to fall.

It was a lot of forsight on Apple's leadership that recognized that video would become something that your parents did on a computer. So they did a good job of positioning themselves on the wave along with Adobe and Avid... but it's not like they created the concept of desktop editing.

This has happened with the new Logic Pro, which was introduced only a few months ago, and will happen with Shake. You just need a bit more patience.

D
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If you're waiting for shake's update you're going to be waiting a VERY VERY VERY LONG time. You do realize they even sell the source code now. There are press releases and everything. It's dead.
 
It's a wild jungle out there. Lots of moving targets, innovation mingling with pragmatic accountants. Upgrades, platforms, compatibility, oh my. A sea of opportunity, but one with unpredictable waves that can wipe you out at any moment. Anyone up for a swim?

Post is not for the faint of heart. It can be a beautiful thing when all is well, but it can really bury you if you are not prepared. Whether Apple decides to sell Pro Apps or not, I think the most pertinent question is whoever has Final Cut/Pro Apps under their umbrella needs to remember the golden rule in high level post production environments - stability is king. If I turn it on and it works every time, that means more to me than one or two new features. If you can give me both, I will support you until the end of time. Does Apple have that attitude? We know they are innovative in a lot of ways, look at why we have these apps in our home studios. But can they truly support the demands of a professional post environment? Anyone who has had clients breathing down their necks with 5 minutes before a deadline knows what that level of reliability means. If Apple is along for that ride, and wants to provide that level of service, then more power to them to hold onto Pro Apps.

However, if they are not committed to that level of support, and their research and financial projections show the biggest growth will come from consumer apps and hardware, then it makes a lot of sense for them to at least look at the option of selling. Will they? They will make decisions based on maximizing their profits. And that is not a black and white topic. There are many shades of grey, because certain product lines have indirect affects on profitability. So even if they are considering it, I imagine there is heavy debate from all angles.

I have my thoughts on what the ideal NLE company should be, but it's best suited for another time and another thread somewhere down the line.

Steve
 
David Dennis said:
And the rumor doesn't make sense, anyway. Apple doesn't need the money and the Pro Apps sell millions of dollars of Macs every year.
----
D
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Well if the pro apps division gets sold off its still going to be selling a ton of Macs and apple will get those sales for free with little development costs. Apple would be idiotic not to guarantee the product remains macs only in the deal.

David Dennis said:
----
I probably feel this way because I could not afford the higher professional prices you guys pay, being basically a hobbyist, but I love what Apple has done to make the pro apps more accessible to someone like me, who has $1,000 but who could not afford $10,000.

D
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One of my biggest problems with FCP is that it is the everyman editing application and really suffers for it. The hobbyist, offliner and the pro finishing editor have very different needs. I'd like to see it more "pro" and less "prosumer"

Regardless the products will be around for a long time to come and a new owner would obviously bring in most of the development team in the purchase (if it happens... ya know...its a rumour...)
 
Sorry about the confusion, guys. When I said "Shake", I meant "Shake's brand new successor which is being created by the Shake team." Since it is being created by the same folks, I think of it as Shake, even if it's not the same product under the same name. I'm sure they are doing this complete rewrite for a very good reason which will probably bring us a much improved application.

No buyer would be willing to guarantee that these applications remain Mac-only. That's why Apple would be nuts to sell them.

In any event, I would say that over the years Apple has treated its customers pretty well, with very strong updates, like the addition of Motion, Color and Soundtrack Pro to the base price.

I doubt that Adobe would have been as aggressive with their pricing without Apple nipping at their heels.

I'm curious, Sean - since i like to learn, and meaning no disrespect, could you tell me how Final Cut has failed the pro market - what would make it pro and less prosumer?

D
 
David Dennis said:
I'm curious, Sean - since i like to learn, and meaning no disrespect, could you tell me how Final Cut has failed the pro market - what would make it pro and less prosumer?
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I think what Sean is looking for is far less crashes. FC crashes a lot.
 
Finner said:
I think what Sean is looking for is far less crashes. FC crashes a lot.
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My Final Cut 5.1.4 system rarely crashed, and I'm only a couple of weeks into testing Studio 2 on my system but it seems okay. The problems come with the various configurations, third party integration, and not running a "clean" system. There's a reason why Digidesign and Avid have been so stringent about the components being used with their systems. It allows them to be able to troubleshoot a little easier.

Regardless, as editors/content creators we need support every once and a while and that to me is what separates the quality vendors from the ones who are not as attentive to the specific needs of their customer base. I've always believed in the smaller companies that focus on one thing and do it really well over the large ones, who although they may have good intentions sometimes get over their heads. I'm not accusing Apple of being one of those companies - yet. I think we need to give them a little more time, see what their development path is going to be and see whether they truly want to own the broadcast/film post industry or if they are just trying to stay relevant. You would think with the momentum they've built up over the past few years that they would love to continue it, but good intentions can run into the Great Wall of Economics and unless those intentions have a good bulldozer along side them (a Steve Jobs perhaps?) they may not be able to make it over that wall.

I'll be keeping a watchful eye on this situation but for now I take it for what it is - a rumor.

Steve
 
I really can't remember last time FCP crashed on a healthy computer.

If you're talking FCS, well that's another story.
Soundtrack.... Motion... Color....


But FCP has been solid on me from 5.1.3
(I always drop the .0 updates, so I have noe experience from FCS2 .0)

Gunleik
 
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