Sony F23 VS Red

[M Most]

This clip does not suggest a quantum leap in improvement over the Sony HDW-F900/950, which is what one would expect for the price point.

How can you possibly determine this from looking at a highly compressed small clip over the Internet on a computer screen?

 

[David Mullen ASC]

What I've seen of the F23, there is a significant improvement in image quality over the F900.

 

[filip kovcin]

What I've seen of the F23, there is a significant improvement in image quality over the F900.

David, may you suggest any links where both cameras are showing same images. maybe with some stills from the cameras? or maybe you can explain the VISIBLE differences in more detail? (not the body difference of course)

thank you,

filip

 

[blacksunday666]

Sony F23 VS Red

How can you possibly determine this from looking at a highly compressed small clip over the Internet on a computer screen?

Nice attack posture mmost...I don't think it's unfair to make a relative comparsion to other 'highly compressed' Red clips 'over the internet' on a 'computer screen'.

 

[Finner]

Nice attack posture mmost...I don't thinks it's unfair to make a relative comparsion to other 'highly compressed' Red clips 'over the internet' on a 'computer screen'.

Hey fight or flight. Are you not the devil blacksunday666? I would fight too

 

[blacksunday666]

Hey fight or flight. Are you not the devil blacksunday666? I would fight too

I am not the devil Finner. Just as you are not David Hasselhoff wearing a 'Red Camera' bikini. Long live the Hoff !

 

[Finner]

I am not the devil Finner. Just as you are not David Hasselhoff wearing a 'Red Camera' bikini. Long live the Hoff !

Ahhhhhhhhhh Yaaaa right not not David Hasselhoff. Of course ahhhhhhhhh I'm not ahhhhhhh David Hasselhoff. David Hasselhoff is much to busy and an amazing award winning actor to be here.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Ahhhhhhhhhh Yaaaa right not not David Hasselhoff. Of course ahhhhhhhhh I'm not ahhhhhhh David Hasselhoff. David Hasselhoff is much to busy and an amazing award winning actor to be here.

Shite, whenever I open the forum anew, if I see a "last post" by Finner, I click straight on it, but this was definitely not a validation of that train of throught

 

[M Most]

Nice attack posture mmost...I don't think it's unfair to make a relative comparsion to other 'highly compressed' Red clips 'over the internet' on a 'computer screen'.

It wasn't being compared to other "highly compressed" Red clips on the Internet. It was being compared to the Sony F900 and F950, which I'm assuming the original poster has some experience with, and from which they have likely viewed footage under much more sensible viewing conditions. Hence my comment.

 

[blacksunday666]

It wasn't being compared to other "highly compressed" Red clips on the Internet. It was being compared to the Sony F900 and F950, which I'm assuming the original poster has some experience with, and from which they have likely viewed footage under much more sensible viewing conditions. Hence my comment.

Incorrect. The thread is entitled Sony F23 VS Red

 

[ChrisLyon]

don't you mean entitled?

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Bet you didn't expect to see an emo vampire failing writer get raped by a cockroach when you woke up this morning did ya!

P.S. Finner isn't the hoff but he does wear the speedo. It's mesmerizing.

 

[M Most]

Incorrect. The thread is entitled Sony F23 VS Red

I really hate pissing matches, but you seem intent on starting one (not the first time). You made a statement, which I quoted and responded to. If you really need to prove you're smarter than me, fine. Happier now?

 

[ChrisLyon]

But admitting defeat to (admittedly) get him to stop won't work. Plus he isn't smarter. He used the word "untitled" incorrectly.

As for the F23, it looks attractive. Again, outside of camera capability, knowing what you are doing in other aspects of production helps with the quality of any image. The obvious limitations to this are simple ones- smaller dynamic range, smaller chip size, and 1K. But, considering the medium for this particular project it seems, for the price of rental and availability of both cameras, they chose wisely to shoot Sony because their medium will never exceed 1080p. Music videos come and go so shooting in HD instead of D-cinema might have been a cheaper and faster option even if the Red was available.

Know what is the best tool for the project because knowing is half the battle (go joe!). I just can't wait for LART because I want some damn side-by-sides with other cameras.

 

[Stephen Williams]

The obvious limitations to this are simple ones- smaller dynamic range, smaller chip size, and 1K.

Hi Chris,

I am not sure you are correct about dynamic range or describing an F23 as a 1K camera. There are advantages as well as disadvantages with a smaller chip.

Stephen

 

[Mike Devlin]

What I've seen of the F23, there is a significant improvement in image quality over the F900.

I would second David's comment. Even the HDC1500 (Sony's standard broadcast camera for the last three years) is a big step up from the F900 and F950. The HDC1500 is the same 14-bit imager (CCD and DSP) as the F23, without the film camera form factor, the new prism and the hardened lens mount. Even so our experience is that the HDC1500 in our Cineflex gimbal is a big improvement over the F950 (which was the standard camera in the Cineflex until recently) and certainly much better than our F900R. And unlike the F23 (or Red) the HDC1500 allows for a remote CCD block adaptor (the T-block configuration as Sony sometimes calls it) essential for a small, ultra-high-performance gimbal like the Cineflex.

The Red is fantastic and superior for many applications. We have two on order and we will likely purchase or rent additional REDs. We have tested an early camera (many thanks to GibCor) and have been extremely impressed (okay, more than extremely impressed). The Red will raise our game in many ways and allow us to do some things we could never do before. However, we certainly will not be getting rid of all our Sony cameras (although we are getting rid of our relatively low hour F900R if anyone is in the market for one ... that probably tells you something). It is not an either-or for us. Red is a fantastic addition to the arsenal, but we will not go into battle with that as our only weapon.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

The F23 is "1.9K" -- 1920 across, close enough to 2K (2048 across) for most purposes. The dynamic range seems quite good from what I've seen at a glance. There was one set-up in the SIM Video showroom a few months ago and when I panned it around, I noticed that the parking lot in sun outside the doorway was not getting clipped despite being exposed for the interior. I would hazard a guess that the RED and F23 are similar in overexposure range at this point, until further testing. There is no indication that I've seen yet that one is superior or inferior to the other in that regard.

Obviously the F23 is a 2/3" CCD camera in regards to depth of field characteristics compared to shooting full sensor on the RED.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Ya, well, just wait for Red23, hehe

Ya, well, just wait for Red23, hehe

This debate reminds me of a dog chasing its tail, and perhaps then pissing on it. In any case, I am willing to stipulate that they are both excellent cameras. IMHO the craft level of the elements in front of the lens will be the biggest differentiator in most instances - particularly lighting.

The main reason I would choose the RedOne over the F23, assuming cost and size were not issues, is the ability to put the best glass on the planet onto the RedOne's PL mount.

It all starts with the optics - same as it ever was. No offense to Graeme or anyone at RED but IMHO the reason the RedOne blows away every other D-Cinema camera I have worked with is the PL mount and the physical advantages of a S35 sized imager combined with pixels to burn.

Note: The 4K RedCode RAW data path, de-bayering algorithms, etc are all critical pieces but I have chosen to confine my comments per this thread.

 

[Michael Brennan]

edit...The obvious limitations to this are simple ones- smaller dynamic range, smaller chip size, and 1K. But, considering the medium for this particular project it seems, for the price of rental and availability of both cameras, they chose wisely to shoot Sony because their medium will never exceed 1080p.

A different perspective...
It is yet to be empirically proven that RED has improved dynamic range to f23.
Smaller chip size is not always limitation.
1k? At 1920 pixels across it is just about 2k


Mike Brennan

 

[Álex Montoya]

And it's expensive