Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Sony EX 1... no "O"

I hope it's a hoax.

Now we just need to see the same kind test done in a verified fashion. Maybe your friend could post his test if he still has it.

Oh, and let's do that to the RED while we're at it...
 
Yes I'd like to see proof there isnt CMOS wobbling. I'm much more worried about that than I am over the possibility of vignetting.
 
Okay, I tracked down the only pan/tilt shot I could find from the Sony camera, did a tripod based 3D track, front projected it into a sphere enviroment and removed the pan/tilt motion from the shot. As far as I can tell, there aren't extreme skew effects happening here... if there were, the long vertical lines in the scene would flex as the shot plays out.

http://ftp.datausa.com/imageshoppe/outgoing/EX1/ROLLING_SHUTTER_EX1.mov

However, this is a crap shot and fouled by auto stabilization, a camera that isn't actually locked down, but slid on a table, and god knows what else.

If anyone wants to take one of these cameras outside in the city with straight vertical lines filling frame, shoot a nice pan only shot at full wide where you go with a fast shutter speed and a bit more snappy pan, I'd be glad to track it "real good" and we can put this to bed. Try to get the camera over nodal point, which is easy to tell, simply check to see if near and far objects don't shift against each other. PM me if more info is needed...

I'm sure LART is doing something similar with RED. If not, they should have.
 
Jim Arthurs said:
If anyone wants to take one of these cameras outside in the city with straight vertical lines filling frame, shoot a nice pan only shot at full wide where you go with a fast shutter speed and a bit more snappy pan, I'd be glad to track it "real good" and we can put this to bed. Try to get the camera over nodal point, which is easy to tell, simply check to see if near and far objects don't shift against each other. PM me if more info is needed...
Click to expand...

I'll send your request along and see if my friend can get it done.
 
joelnet said:
My friend said that's got to be a hoax. It's the first test he tried and he's never seen anything like that.
Click to expand...

As the guy who did the test that everyone is getting their panties in a twist about, I'd like to say that, well, it isn't fake. Damnit.

If you'd like to know how I got it to do this and other things, I'll just link the DVXUser thread and quote myself.

Here's the link: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=116961 (my results are on page 3)

And here's the quote:

Haha, wow, I go to work for a few hours and this is what happens. Hmmm, intriguing.

Alright, so everyone is saying that this is an HV20? Well, I do have the raw MP4s from the camera sitting right here. I'll try to outline the conditions as best as possible for both the skew and the partial exposure.

When I tested for skew I was shooting 1080 24p with the shutter angle @ 180 degrees. I had it mounted in studio on a pretty beat up boegen 501 head and the lightest pair of sticks around. What I did is aim the EX at something thin and bright, then I zoomed in to about 40mm and panned the camera from left to right. It really wasn't that hard, and you can see the results now. I don't have any webspace to host the raw clip, but if anyone out there can I'll give them the MP4. I don't know if that'll make a difference though, because I'm sure people will just claim that I converted my "HV20" footage or some bullshi* like that.

The flash exposure is a really weird case, and I'll explain it here. We decided that, as a crew, we'd try to fit the EX into our live to tape workflow so we brought it to a basketball game on friday night. The photographers from the campus newspaper must have been there too, because some guy was mounting four flash bulbs around the court: one on the backs of either set of bleachers (one was just left of the camera) and there were also bulbs on either end of the court. They were all synced and went off at the same time. I just happened to be lucky enough to get one on camera. I also have the raw MP4 for that too. For that shoot we were using 1080 60i with the shutter off, although in retrospect I should've shot 720 60p. My bad I guess.

So yeah, I guess I'm a liar or something? Seems kinda weird. I dunno, I guess maybe I thought people would think to take this at face value, but the internet is always full of surprises.

P.S. Everything besides the recording format was set to factory default by the way. Only thing I changed was the video out and I added the 4:3 markers in the LCD.
Click to expand...

So there you go.
 
Hawaj said:
just some more comparisons - EX1, XH G1, HVX200, Z1J
Click to expand...

I took the EX-1 1080P, EX-1 1080i, and the HVX200 1080P frames and layered them up into a single Photoshop file so you can quickly compare them by turning the various layers on and off.

http://ftp.datausa.com/imageshoppe/outgoing/EX1/EX1_sharpnessvrsHVX200.psd

(24megs)

It looks like there is a small but very real quality increase in the EX-1 1080P over the interlaced (as expected), and the difference in detail and dynamic range over the HVX is almost criminal.

Even with the high level of sharpening on all the samples, it's clear that there is some bang for buck with the EX-1. I would love to compare resolution here to RED 2K windowed.

Of course, there are many, many, many areas that the quality of the RED overshadows this little 8-bit wonder, but I'd hate to be someone who bought into the higher end Sony ED HDCAM 350 line of cameras. It's clear you get most all the benefits and a full raster imager without the $20K + price tag.
 
i can corroborate alex's experience:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1116224&postcount=43

i've been a bit too busy to post the footage, but i should do that at some point.

it's easy to show jello-like rolling shutter distortion on the ex1:
(1) zoom into any rectangular object
(2) jiggle the camera mostly up and down

you'll see the distortion on the LCD and on the mp4 footage. there's no way you can miss it.

this camera won't work for shakey shots (handheld shakey, helicopter shakey, etc.). i bet the red won't either (correct me if i'm wrong). probably not many of us shoot like that. if you have this camera and you really need a shakey shot you can just rent an xh-a1: with that much shaking the footage will be indistinguishable.

Alex.Mitchell said:
As the guy who did the test that everyone is getting their panties in a twist about, I'd like to say that, well, it isn't fake. Damnit.

If you'd like to know how I got it to do this and other things, I'll just link the DVXUser thread and quote myself.

Here's the link: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=116961 (my results are on page 3)

And here's the quote:



So there you go.
Click to expand...
 
this camera won't work for shakey shots (handheld shakey, helicopter shakey, etc.)
Click to expand...

Will reasonable handheld shots...such as the style of the ones in Schindlers List show any rolling shutter distortion? Or do you really have to go crazy with the shaking to notice.
 
Weston said:
Will reasonable handheld shots...such as the style of the ones in Schindlers List show any rolling shutter distortion? Or do you really have to go crazy with the shaking to notice.
Click to expand...

They must have done some funky stuff to get that effect if it's in fact real.
But considering I saw no signs of such distortion when I used the camera not to mention in all the footage I've seen I'm going to say you'd be pretty safe.
 
I have experience with cmos chips for about 2 years and never encounter such a evident problem shown in the youtube video. Bet you can do some pretty shaky stuff with the EX-1 and only a handfull of people will notice the wobling effect, if any. As Alex put it. Its there (because of the cmos...), but most of the time only to a minor extent IMO.

There are some videos on the net showing som major wobling effects. Surprising as it may seem, maybe they just coming from some bad units.. You can do a "The bourne ultimatium" flick with a Cmos chip anytime. And thats a darn shaky shot movie, if you know what I mean.
 
Alex.Mitchell said:
As the guy who did the test that everyone is getting their panties in a twist about, I'd like to say that, well, it isn't fake. Damnit.
Click to expand...

Hey Alex. Thanks for posting that and straightening things out. (maybe "straightening things out" isn't the best choice of words really).
 
Matt, Manny, Billy and I did rolling shutter tests at LART. I am under NDA though and do not know if I can say any more then that?
 
Finner, we would love to know the result from that test. Give us some more input when you have the chance. thx.
 
Are their other problems with Sony EX-1

Are their other problems with Sony EX-1

I was considering getting Sony's EX-1 as second camera for the RED. I have heard on other website about Sony's EX-1 Vignette problem. So I ask a friend of mine to attend DV West for me and check it out. He went yesterday because I am in New York and could not attend.

He spent a lot of time at the Sony booth and was just about 100% convinced about the EX-1. That was until he got home and watched their marketing video. At first glance he was like Wow Pretty etc etc. But the more he watched it, the more he saw macro-blocking large blocks of square pixels in the sky and in some of the backgrounds in the talking heads shots.

He Said, "The funny thing is that they had some shots during the interviews of some stuff shot on a subway, and so does my sample DVD shot with HVX200. Slow shutter artifacts are plainly evident in Sony’s own video!" "But not on mine."

"So now I am conflicted, either a billion dollar company can't properly down res their own stuff to standard def DVD, or is their actually a problem."

"So I am confused, yet still pleasantly pleased with my cameras HVX200 capabilities."

"Now if Sony screwed up, that will have to be seen."

Has anyone else gotten this marketing video and seen this problem or has the camera and have the same down res problem. What about the Vignette problem?

Bob
 
sceneeast said:
I was considering getting Sony's EX-1 as second camera for the RED. I have heard on other website about Sony's EX-1 Vignette problem. So I ask a friend of mine to attend DV West for me and check it out. He went yesterday because I am in New York and could not attend.

He spent a lot of time at the Sony booth and was just about 100% convinced about the EX-1. That was until he got home and watched their marketing video. At first glance he was like Wow Pretty etc etc. But the more he watched it, the more he saw macro-blocking large blocks of square pixels in the sky and in some of the backgrounds in the talking heads shots.

He Said, "The funny thing is that they had some shots during the interviews of some stuff shot on a subway, and so does my sample DVD shot with HVX200. Slow shutter artifacts are plainly evident in Sony’s own video!" "But not on mine."

"So now I am conflicted, either a billion dollar company can't properly down res their own stuff to standard def DVD, or is their actually a problem."

"So I am confused, yet still pleasantly pleased with my cameras HVX200 capabilities."

"Now if Sony screwed up, that will have to be seen."

Has anyone else gotten this marketing video and seen this problem or has the camera and have the same down res problem. What about the Vignette problem?

Bob
Click to expand...

it's just poor DVD encoding, Sony doesn't really put in a good enough effort to show off the capabilities of their cameras in areas like this.
I haven't watched many Sony marketing DVDs but if their as bad as those crappy WMVs they use on their website then I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest that he noticed that.
Especially with their F23 Cinealta camera, I mean can't they put up like a 480p quicktime in h.264 or something?
One of the weird things about Sony.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top