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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED footage certified for any channels yet?

Matthew Rogers

Matthew Rogers

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Many channels like NGC or Discovery have requirements on what camera can be used for the programming. We all know that the RED blows past what they are looking for in quality, but has anyone hear if any channels have added the RED as an "approved" camera?

Matthew
 
Given that the published guidelines are there purely for selective enforcement...that they have something published on paper that says they don't have to air your co-produced doc shot on VX1000 instead of the F900 they agreed to....

I'd say it will probably be some time before they update specs to mention the Red.
 
I know that E!, Wild Planet and FX have used my camera for promos, so i am assuming that they are approved on those networks.
 
some channels like Discovery have distinct guidelines on cameras they 'allow' in order to maintain a desired overall look for the network - and some care much more than others. Red's specs are a slam dunk.

Discovery, for example, does allow lesser-quality b-roll cameras of course, but they specifically state an allowable percentage of total show time that can be shot in lesser-quality cameras/formats. It was good news recently for many prod cos when Discovery 'certified' the (affordable) Sony XDCAM HD for unlimited use in their shows.

John
 
Discovery approval specs for cameras can and will change as better cameras come along.
That RED is used for a promo has no relevance on approvals for programme formats.

Discovery have a very sensible team who have to test kit and make hard choices.


The 1920x1080 pixel EX1 with CF and 12x zoom will be a big attraction for low end docs. A cheaper and easier way to shoot than RED as no craft camera person required.

High quality docs should consider RED but there is no gettiing around the versatility of a 22x lens on a decent HD camera which I suggest will have more res than RED with optical adapter and 2k windowed image.
Time will tell if cutting between scaled and windowed is acceptable and is one of the hard choices disco will have to make.

I guess Canon or Fuji could come up with multiple moving lens groups to make a compact lightweight 15x RED lens.



BBC have just created a $3M tender for dry hire of 35mm film or 35mm size digital camera.
Could be a coincidence but it is the first time I can recall that they have mentioned a digital 35mm size sensor in a tender, despite D20 and Genesis being around for a few years.


Mike Brennan
 
RCW ( RED Channel Worldwide )

RCW ( RED Channel Worldwide )

RED Channel sponsored by RED 's " AE " card is nor an bad idea to help the poor and help them to help themself.

U2 and Bob in Ireland will listen what RED channel can bring to the World...

Live AID 1985
G8 .....in the past


Now all we need is Fair Trade over any Broadband.

REDHKSC.org

Stewart
Founder
HKG / CHINA or later ..........t.....w....Aust in the Greater Chinese China World


macville said:
Many channels like NGC or Discovery have requirements on what camera can be used for the programming. We all know that the RED blows past what they are looking for in quality, but has anyone hear if any channels have added the RED as an "approved" camera?

Matthew
Click to expand...
 
Mickjoebill said:
I guess Canon or Fuji could come up with multiple moving lens groups to make a compact lightweight 15x RED lens.
Click to expand...
If they made it with a PL mount, a zoom rocker with a grip on the side, and made it available for under $3000, they would sell many, many thousands.
 
That would be more like $30K. Covering the image area requires a pretty large lens when you get into Hi Res large stop kinda lens. Take a look at the new S4's and the new Zeiss lenses.
 
I have been shooting a show for discovery, and I had the same question regarding the HVX200. That camera has not been approved by the network, despite a good amount of lobbying from show producers and cameramen who believed that it would have been a far better choice than the HDV cameras which were eventually used. Apparently, the issue is not with image quality, but rather, "tape format" (or lack there of). As I understand it, Discovery owns all the shows created for it, and therefore, production companies who create shows for Discovery are contractually obligated to provide the network with all camera master tapes upon delivery of the show. Shooting a "tapeless" format would create major legal headaches, and the lawyers have yet to address this issue.
 
not very interesting for most here, but Swiss Television approved RED already for their airing on their new HD channel.
Funny, cause they couldn't test it (stated in the specs since september) - but good, cause that means there's trust in it (Think Swiss engineers! And they didn't approve everything less than 2/3" until November)
 
kinoeye said:
I have been shooting a show for discovery, and I had the same question regarding the HVX200. That camera has not been approved by the network, despite a good amount of lobbying from show producers and cameramen who believed that it would have been a far better choice than the HDV cameras which were eventually used. Apparently, the issue is not with image quality, but rather, "tape format" (or lack there of). As I understand it, Discovery owns all the shows created for it, and therefore, production companies who create shows for Discovery are contractually obligated to provide the network with all camera master tapes upon delivery of the show. Shooting a "tapeless" format would create major legal headaches, and the lawyers have yet to address this issue.
Click to expand...

Interesting, since an easy way around that is simply laying off your mxf files to a 1400 DVCPro HD deck, and then re-ingest the tape. Cut your show, master, and there are your "Camera originals".
 
mcgeedigital said:
Interesting, since an easy way around that is simply laying off your mxf files to a 1400 DVCPro HD deck, and then re-ingest the tape. Cut your show, master, and there are your "Camera originals".
Click to expand...

And you would explain the in-camera up-rezzing and obvious compression artifacts how?
 
mcgeedigital said:
That deck is firewire, there isn't any uprezzing or artifacts, its all ones and zeros.
Click to expand...

The HVX200 has 960x540-pixel sensors. It up-rezzes in camera to make 1080.

To fit 16 minutes of HD video onto 8 Gig P2 cards, the HVX200 compresses like crazy.

Thus being the difference between footage originated on a proper HD camera and that which has been copied to a different format to try to fool the broadcast engineers. It won't cut it with most networks.

In general, trying to fool your customers isn't a great business practice.
 
Crew. We're gettin a bit OT here, and fooling your customer is not a great businessplan -;) But:

DVCPRO HD is last i checked an ok format for Discovery and Red is doin' some compression, too -;)
The compression scheme is similar on say hdx 900 and HVX ( and make the same noisy blacks...) and fit on the same disk space. There's nothing added to that when you lay off to tape.

The upressing of the HVX is an issue, though...

Cheers!

Gunleik
 
kinoeye has got it right about source footage. At the end of a job, Discovery and many studios/channels require all the source elements turned over to them so that the show can be easily re-assembled in the future for recuts or other uses. At this point hard drives are not considered acceptable. It's going to have to be one of the typical camera master formats with matching code.

To address the mention about legal issues, the initial contract the producer signs spells out the deliverables including all the source elements. You knowingly agree to the deliverables which may also include audio mix stems, graphic files, lots of stuff. They don't need lawyers to go after you, the Discovery vault/library staff have very big teeth and will not let you go until they have got what they want.

Some personal experience there. No worries, a good plastic surgeon fixed the bite marks!
 
Sproketz said:
kinoeye has got it right about source footage. At the end of a job, Discovery and many studios/channels require all the source elements turned over to them so that the show can be easily re-assembled in the future for recuts or other uses. At this point hard drives are not considered acceptable. It's going to have to be one of the typical camera master formats with matching code.
Click to expand...

That model will not last forever.
 
CrewPix.com said:
The HVX200 has 960x540-pixel sensors. It up-rezzes in camera to make 1080.

To fit 16 minutes of HD video onto 8 Gig P2 cards, the HVX200 compresses like crazy.

Thus being the difference between footage originated on a proper HD camera and that which has been copied to a different format to try to fool the broadcast engineers. It won't cut it with most networks.

In general, trying to fool your customers isn't a great business practice.
Click to expand...


I see you know very little about the HVX200. It uses the EXACT same DVCPro codec that the Varicam uses.
 
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