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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Isn't Redcode Just ProRes

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Zaphod

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I searched the forum and couldn't turn anything up on this, so sorry if this has been discussed before but...

Isn't Redcode just ProRes?

I don't get what is supposed to be so revolutionary about RedCode?

Why couldn't you just use ProRes or DNxHD or the like?

ProRes is Wavelet based isn't it?
 
Redcode is 4k raw (4:4:4)

ProRes is 1080 4:2:2

among many other difference which I'm not smart enough to explain. Regardless, no they are not the same, so if you are able and choose, edit in redcode.

I'm sure someone will pst a better reply when it's not 2:30 in the morning :)
 
ProRes is DCT, not wavelet.
 
Redcode or rather Red Raw is not 4:4:4, it can't be referred to in terms of x:x:x

It is raw bayer images. The revolution is recording the raw data from the sensor, with a 10:1 compression, with no visual loss.

You can then process the data to the format you like, before or after edit (that is also revolutionary), to Prores or DNxHD if you like, quite a good solution if your output is HD and you want to keep your post-production costs low (no RAID).

Cheers,
Damien
 
RAW on RED, isn't like RAW like a traditional RAW on high data rates file. The compression is up to 30:1, how's that possible ? Thanks to RED. But RAW can't be understand as in any video format like YUV, or 4:2:2 or 4:4:4, nor RGB. It's RAW, and in RED case, it's RED's RAW which its own proprietary bayer interpolation and debayer thru either REDCine, REDAlert and Scratch at the moment.

AlienFX, i believe 4K is only up to 25fps and 2K to 75fps for now.
 
Redcode is much more efficient. Redcode 4k RAW is roughly the same filesize as 2k ProRes 422
 
Can FCP directly import R3D files with REDCODE?

I know we were able to download it, but I dont see the option to choose it on FCP.
 
No, they're very different.

Graeme
 
AlienFX said:
As far as I know there is REDCode Raw 4:4:4 and RedRaw which doesn't have a colorspace ratio.

REDCODE™ 12 bit RAW 4K, 2K (windowed sensor)
1 – 30 fps 4K
1 – 100 fps 2K

RAW PORT™ Option High speed serial interface
1 – 60 fps 2540p (4K+)
Click to expand...

Last time I exchanged messages with Graeme as to the RAW high speed port, the output format planned for this port will be 4096X2048 only, so 4K not 4K+
As to the REDCode RAW is as RAW as any other raw format, just straight dump from the CMOS so no color space or any other space should be associated with it.
It is single channel raw dump.
However raw data could be compressed and in case of Wavelet compression less changes inside the frame more resolution you get. Just by converting linear raw data to the log data you can compress 4 times. However what I like the most about Wavelet compression is the fact that when there is a lot of movement on the screen the resolution of the entire frame drop softly down a bit and when you stop it gets all the way up again.
Human eye has pretty high latency so it is incapable of seeing moving objects very sharp anyway.
 
Zaphod said:
I searched the forum and couldn't turn anything up on this, so sorry if this has been discussed before but...

Isn't Redcode just ProRes?

I don't get what is supposed to be so revolutionary about RedCode?

Why couldn't you just use ProRes or DNxHD or the like?

ProRes is Wavelet based isn't it?
Click to expand...

If there were something similar before Redcode, it was Cineform RAW. They both are wavelet 4K, unlike comparably very limited ProRes or DNxHD.
 
REDCINE already has downres (and crop) options...
 
Zaphod said:
Isn't Redcode just ProRes?
Click to expand...

No it's not. ProRes is made by Apple, REDCODE is made by RED

Zaphod said:
I don't get what is supposed to be so revolutionary about RedCode?
Click to expand...

It's running IN camera, compressing 4K 12-bit RAW image data to about 18x smaller

Zaphod said:
Why couldn't you just use ProRes or DNxHD or the like?
Click to expand...

Because that's not running inside the camera, nor would they be able to store the 4K 12-bit RAW image data in their current implementations
 
I don't get what is supposed to be so revolutionary about RedCode?
Click to expand...
1- Very high quality. It's less damaging to the image than 4:2:2 uncompressed codecs (and other 4:2:2 codecs like Prores and DNxHD). The compression is very benign and pretty much does not impair keying at all and is visually lossless.
2- You have a practical way of shooting 4K without needing an expensive flash media array. You can record 4K onto a normal compact flash card. Compression also tends to make the workflow easier.

This is probably the nicest thing about Redcode RAW.
3- Recording RAW means that any image processing is not baked in. So you can do a high-quality deBayer later on. It's also more efficient compression since you aren't throwing in any extraneous information (e.g. from debayering, from white balance, sharpening, etc. etc.).


You might also be able to make the same argument for similar products like Cineform RAW... but there is no 4K camera that shoots to Cineform RAW as far as I know? (So it'd be an apples to oranges comparison.)
 
GlennChan said:
You might also be able to make the same argument for similar products like Cineform RAW... but there is no 4K camera that shoots to Cineform RAW as far as I know? (So it'd be an apples to oranges comparison.)
Click to expand...

CineForm RAW has and can be used for compression of other 4K cameras, such as Dalsa and Phantom, so the comparisons can be made (just different type of apples as the sensors are different.) For an in-camera direct comparisons SI-2K and Red windowed at 2K are a similar starting point. You will find the compression approach is very different, CineForm RAW in camera is optimized at a variable 7:1 or lower and Redcode optimized (currently) to a constant around 12:1. However once you get uncompressed out of the Red, and CineForm RAW could be used immediately, and the benefits and approaches of each technology would be far more clear; both codecs have their own advantages, but of course I have my favorite. ;)
 
REDcode is also HIGHLY tuned for our sensor & camera system and is contantly being improved.
 
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