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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I've made a big decision...

Jay A. Kelley said:
RED has gotten so far under my skin that my initial view of it was perhaps a little TOO emotional and not enough common sense.
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Wait till you get your camera. I can't even remember common sense.

Great posts Jay. Always good to keep your feet on the ground and your eyes open. But, after you start shooting RED ... you'll never turn back ...
 
I'm with ya Jay! I wrestled with these very same issues and came to a similar conclusion -- I will [probably] need something else for some of the work I do. I did sell off all my HVX200 gear and currently don't own any video cameras except my Sony HDV handycam (just for home movies, kids, etc..). RED will be the camera I own and maintain myself. I will try to shoot as much as possible with the RED One. For other jobs where RED just doesn't fit, I will do what I'm doing now: rent. I thought about it long and hard and I really don't want to buy a camera like an HPX2000 or something else that isn't going to evolve or be as dynamic as RED.

This coming year, depending on the work I get involved with, I may need to consider owning something rather than renting. I don't regret selling my HVX, it doesn't offer any of what I want these days, even though it was a fine camera. I will at least wait for NAB before making any such decisions about purchasing an HD camera. I'm hoping we will get to see what the RED "professional pocket camera" is all about. Perhaps other companies will have some better price / performance gear in the 2/3" sensor arena by that time...
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
BUT for RIGHT now, I need to be able to shoot HD talking head programs without fear of losing money.
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If you have clients banging on your door saying, we need DVCProHD. Then fine, make an investment and get a return. But if what your talking about is fear of the unknown... then this is what we call self fulfilling prophecy.

By the way I once gaffed for a St. Louis shooter, who sounds like he is mostly in your same market. Dave Berliner... know him?

IBloom
 
Thanks

Thanks

offhollywood said:
Wait till you get your camera. I can't even remember common sense.

Great posts Jay. Always good to keep your feet on the ground and your eyes open. But, after you start shooting RED ... you'll never turn back ...
Click to expand...

Hear, hear! Shooting with the RedOne is such a gas. Give me a good gaffer with a crack crew, a smart schedule, dead balls 1st AC, an interesting location and a compelling story to tell and its frikkin' Red Heaven - the RedOne is a seriously bad ass tool. A big reason for that is the ability to use awesome PL glass because it all starts with the optics (the Digiprimes are a great technical achievement, but ultimately, they are a kludge).

I've already started farming out my corporate stuff and taking a cut for making the deal and schmoozing the clients - heck, I was bored with about two-thirds of that work before I even got my RedOne but with a family to support I took it like a man. Thanks to the Red Leader, the Leader of the Rebellion, the Fire Chief, the Redhead, the Red Problem Solver, the Workflow Wizard, the Code Chief and the rest of the Red Team its a new RED dawn - I give my heartfelt thanks to you all.
 
There is one thing about the RED image... it is very addicting.

Jim
 
Jay,

I think your points are incredibly valid. No one knows how you like to work better than yourself. When looking at acquiring a new camera system like the Red One, you have to analyze how it fits into your way of doing things. That requires a lot of homework and it sounds like you have done your fair share. To go into this blind, hoping for the best would be a big mistake. You could buy the full package, and find out that it just doesn't work for you.

One of the things I have been dying to do is configure the camera in as many ways as I can possibly think of, shooting mock setups in a variety of scenarios (corporate, music video, commercials, and film) and seeing how it works for each. But alas, I don't have a camera to play around with yet. But that's how I get my head around these kind of things. Hands on knowledge goes so much further than speculation. Right now I feel like I have done a lot of speculating. My only hands on was at NAB and that was minimal.

These are the things that scare me and I will follow it up with what's being done about it.

1. Monitoring options. Still lacking full implementaion for simultaneous EVF and LCD. RED IS WORKING ON IT

2. No audio. AS JIM INDICATED, IT'S IN BETA TESTING

3. Short recording times. HIGH CAPCITY CF CARDS AND RED DRIVES AT SOME POINT HOPEFULLY IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

4. PL mount issues. BEING REWORKED, NEW ONE TO BE MUCH BETTER

5. Heat issues. HAS ONLY BEEN A PROBLEM FOR SOME AS FAR AS I CAN TELL AND I THINK THIS HAS BEEN IMPROVED.

6. Turnaround times. Can we get footage to clients quickly. THIS WILL IMPROVE ONCE THE POST WORLD IMPLEMENTS FULL SUPPORT FOR REDCODE.

7. Camera startup times. HAS BEEN IMPROVED. I THINK IT'S 60 SECONDS NOW, CORRECT? IF THEY CAN SOMEHOW IMPROVE EVEN FURTHER ON THIS THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

8. Support gear. Once all of the accessories are in place, including third party ones, I think we will all feel more comfortable in taking this camera on just about any shoot that a camera like the SDX/HDX900 and similar cameras would go on.

A lot of this boils down to the fact that the camera is not fully enabled and some of us don't have it in our hands to experiment with various configurations.I wonder what the landscape looks like a year from now. Will we be expanding the Red One's use due to more solutions and modifications hitting the market?

Perhaps this camera will be more of a go to for you at that point Jay. It could just be that a lot is unknown right now and that is why it is very valid to raise the concerns you did. The Red may never be the full swiss army knife you thought it might be, but perhaps it will down the road do more for you as things get better all around.

Steve
 
playing with REDCINE has changed my perspective on everything. i was a fan of the camera, but the software rocks. shooting raw is the absolute shizzle. you can have whatever you want with the push of a button.

oh, the RED camera, that's so yesterday...REDCINE is our future.
 
I justed the DVRIG combo, small Mattebox 16:9 wide angle and the standard followfocus voor 15mm bars. The sholderpad is oke, could be a little softer at the front. Stabel shot and easy to walk with.

regards Robert
 
stevesherrick said:
Jay,

I think your points are incredibly valid. No one knows how you like to work better than yourself. When looking at acquiring a new camera system like the Red One, you have to analyze how it fits into your way of doing things. That requires a lot of homework and it sounds like you have done your fair share. To go into this blind, hoping for the best would be a big mistake. You could buy the full package, and find out that it just doesn't work for you.

One of the things I have been dying to do is configure the camera in as many ways as I can possibly think of, shooting mock setups in a variety of scenarios (corporate, music video, commercials, and film) and seeing how it works for each. But alas, I don't have a camera to play around with yet. But that's how I get my head around these kind of things. Hands on knowledge goes so much further than speculation. Right now I feel like I have done a lot of speculating. My only hands on was at NAB and that was minimal.

These are the things that scare me and I will follow it up with what's being done about it.

1. Monitoring options. Still lacking full implementaion for simultaneous EVF and LCD. RED IS WORKING ON IT

2. No audio. AS JIM INDICATED, IT'S IN BETA TESTING

3. Short recording times. HIGH CAPCITY CF CARDS AND RED DRIVES AT SOME POINT HOPEFULLY IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

4. PL mount issues. BEING REWORKED, NEW ONE TO BE MUCH BETTER

5. Heat issues. HAS ONLY BEEN A PROBLEM FOR SOME AS FAR AS I CAN TELL AND I THINK THIS HAS BEEN IMPROVED.

6. Turnaround times. Can we get footage to clients quickly. THIS WILL IMPROVE ONCE THE POST WORLD IMPLEMENTS FULL SUPPORT FOR REDCODE.

7. Camera startup times. HAS BEEN IMPROVED. I THINK IT'S 60 SECONDS NOW, CORRECT? IF THEY CAN SOMEHOW IMPROVE EVEN FURTHER ON THIS THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

8. Support gear. Once all of the accessories are in place, including third party ones, I think we will all feel more comfortable in taking this camera on just about any shoot that a camera like the SDX/HDX900 and similar cameras would go on.

A lot of this boils down to the fact that the camera is not fully enabled and some of us don't have it in our hands to experiment with various configurations.I wonder what the landscape looks like a year from now. Will we be expanding the Red One's use due to more solutions and modifications hitting the market?

Perhaps this camera will be more of a go to for you at that point Jay. It could just be that a lot is unknown right now and that is why it is very valid to raise the concerns you did. The Red may never be the full swiss army knife you thought it might be, but perhaps it will down the road do more for you as things get better all around.

Steve
Click to expand...

Very soothing!
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
and 2: THIS THING IS #*(*&# HUGE!!! I also saw the size of those 19mm rods.. My God.
Jay
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Hi Jay, while I agree with most of what you´re saying, I feel exactly the oppposite about the MB20. This thing is so light and small. I bought it to be used with the Moviecam SL which is a lightweight 35mm camera designed mainly for handheld and steadicam work. For that kind of work, the MB20 was the perfect option. The MB14 is what I would call big. I don´t know if there are many differences between the MB20 and MB20II, but the ´20 is great. Camera assistants love it and there´s not a single DP that has complain about it yet. They used the MB16 before the ´20.

But if you still feel it´s too big you can always use the Snap On LMB-3 which is smaller, lighter and cheaper than the bigger ones and comes with two 4x4 filter trays (guess Red needs 4x5.6 thought).

Regards
 
Yep the MB20 is quite small.
 
camlight said:
I justed the DVRIG combo, small Mattebox 16:9 wide angle and the standard followfocus voor 15mm bars. The sholderpad is oke, could be a little softer at the front. Stabel shot and easy to walk with.

regards Robert
Click to expand...

thanks for the info..
 
Jay,

Relax Jay…nothing personal intended in my response to you.

Your use of “ENG” to describe what you do seems confusing and misleading. ENG is electronic news gathering. I never understood you to be a news guy. Later in your posts you mention you do corporate, industrial, and broadcast, which are EFP (electronic field production) unless in the case of broadcast it is specifically ENG.

I have extensive clients in the high end corporate, industrial, and naturally the broadcast industries. I don’t do ENG (though I have), I do EFP: broadcast (usually non-hardlined travel. Sports, nature, documentaries), corporate, and industrial.

Multiple national broadcast and cable networks I produce for have expressed deep interest in not only having series packagers like myself use RED One cameras, but also have expressed to me a desire for them to obtain their own RED One cameras.

In your first post you said:

“I am sharing this because I want to help one or two people out there who may be in my position.. A lot of cameras will start flying out the door at RED soon, an we will be running like crazy to move things in our respective businesses. If some of you are EFP shooters, and hoping to have RED "bridge the gap" so to speak... You may want to look again.”

To me, that is clearly aimed at influencing other EFP shooters to reconsider their intended use of RED One, and yet when I called you on that, stating my successful real world use of RED #8 for EFP production, your response was:

“RED may work as an EFP (Or ENG) camera... But not for me.
(Notice I said NOT FOR ME.. Did not say for YOU)”

So, in your first post you are trying to coach other EFP adopters, and in your response to me you claim you were not, and that your post was just addressing your own needs. If your decision was just for you, then why start a new thread making an announcement of your decision?

The objections you had about using RED One for EFP work, were well answered by Hans (Post #23), Steve (Post #49), and others, and I agree with their itemized answers. With each new firmware version RED One becomes more and more EFP capable.

I’m curious why you’d draw some hard conclusions on RED One’s EFP utility when you haven’t personally used the camera yet, rather than wait until the camera is fully enabled, and in the meantime listen to someone with far more real world EFP production experience than anyone on RED User (me), and someone who has specifically been using a RED One camera for 3 months in EFP configurations on real world productions (me).

You’ll notice in my post that I clearly mentioned that I have always and will continue to use cameras from other manufacturers when it is the best camera choice for a particular project. RED One isn’t a perfect camera for every cine or EFP production – but IMO it is the most flexibly, adaptable, and utilitarian camera system ever made – and I will push it out to the very limits of what it can do in the wide range of productions I do.

Do what you need to do for your own business model, but don’t confuse that with what RED One is capable of. I’ve maintained from the beginning of RED that the biggest limitation for RED One adaptors in the use of thee camera system will be their own skill sets and attitudes. Those with broad skills and open minds won’t see limits, but rather possibilities.

Good luck with your business Jay. A High-end 2/3” HD camera is worth keeping in a kit even after you acquire a RED One camera. I have – and I’ll use it when it’s the best camera for a particular project.
 
Gibby,

I don't see the point of your last posting.

First up, you go to chop the guy up on a matter of semantics where clearly the guy is in a difficult position and needs to air his thoughts and decisions and merely expects by airing it to people either in his position, or not he will receive feedback/advice which may help him or others in his quandary. I expect his principal need is for himself and family. The tone of you message infers he's done something wrong where on the contrary he's put his feelings out to all which is far more valuable to us all than any loose semantics.

Don't damn Jay for showing 'dissent' in voicing an opinion, it's the message not the words that's important!

In addition I expect your and Jay's businesses may be structured differently and what's work for you may not work for him.

Cheers,
 
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