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my personal Nikon lens set - opinions? improvements?

Michael Morlan

Michael Morlan

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I'm near finished purchasing my personal Nikon primes and zooms. I’ll be packaging them for cine with adapter rings, iris ball bearings removed, etc. I wanted all manual for the primes until I see a proven Birger mount. I may upgrade as things develop.

 24mm f2 AI-s
 35mm f1.4 AI-s
 50mm f1.4 AI-s
 85mm f1.4 AI-s
 105mm f1.8 AI-s
 17-35mm f2.8 AF ED-IF - still to purchase
 80-200mm f/2.8 AF D - understand the Birger will only control AF-S

iris ball bearing - there was a video showing how to remove the ball bearing from a Nikon lens. Does anyone recall where that is? It seemed simple enough. If I can't get a good shop rate for the removal on my manual focus lenses, I may enjoy doing it myself.

gear rings - I'm heavily considering the custom aluminum gear rings made by JBK Cine. $95 each. Just submit your focus ring diameter. Jerry also makes a small Delrin plastic stop for those AF lenses. $25

dressing the front of the lens - I'm considering step up rings to 77mm for all the smaller primes. (The zooms are 77mm.) Then an 80mm donut on the matte box I ultimately choose. 77mm clip-on lens caps are $22/10 on eBay.

keeping it safe - The Storm Case im2400 for the primes and im2050 for shorter zooms.

Just under $5K for everything.

Thoughts, opinions, razzies?

Thanks,

Michael
 
Hi Michael,

I remember that video too. Just can't remember where though. One thing I do remember about it was that they did not tell you to make sure that you remove the little spring from the hole. You want to do this to make sure it doesn't work it's way out and either score the apeture ring or get jammed up on it.
Jerry Kosan of JBK is a good guy and a qualified cine tech. and machinist. We use to work togeather at Cinema Products. If you talk to him tell him I said hello.
Nice grouping of lenses. One I use to like was their 20mm, but I hear it's a bit hard to find nowadays.
 
Ok Michael,

Obviously the video was about Canon lenses. Still want to take that little spring out of the hole though. lol
We use to put Nikon mounts on different cameras waaaay back when and I remember taking the click stop out of some Nikkor lenses. IF I recall (and this is an IF) the click stop was right under the lens mount. I don't remember if it was a ball and spring or a piece of spring steel which located into notches on the bottom of the lens mount itself. Either way it will be apparent when you remove the mount. Either way make sure the screwdriver that you use is of a high quality steel and a tight fit into the head of the screw. If you bugger up the screw head trying to get it to break loose you are going to hate life real quick. Perhaps a lens tech would show you how on one of the lenses and then you could do the others by yourself.
 
Enzo, that's the video. Thanks. The Nikon 14-24 might be just the ticket for my short lenses.

Chuck, thanks for the notes about proper tools. As you note, I might engage a trained tech for the first one. If the 20mm prime was faster than the AF zooms spanning the same range, I'd consider it.

edit: I just noted the 14-24 is one of the new "G" line of lenses without manual aperture ring. That makes the lens kinda useless without the forthcoming Birger mount.
 
Yes, the Birger is required for the new Nikon "G" lenses to function properly. Only mentioned it because it should be an amazing lens and you mentioned the Birger so I thought perhaps you were going that route.

Non-Birger: I would stick with the 17-35 which is a very good lens but be sure to test it as I had problems finding one that was sharp enough in the corners at F/2.8. No, this is not a big an issue with the smaller 4.5K sensor compared to full 35mm but I would still test before buying and make sure it is sharp at 2.8. I had a Tamron 14mm that was a very good lens if you want wide at reasonable price, used in on my Arri 2C back in the "old days" of shooting film.

Also, I know a pro camera repair guy in NC who will fix your lenses for a reasonable price. PM me for his info if you want it. He fixed 15 of mine for about $30.00 each.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Guys,

Is the Nikon mount available yet? Is there a release date?

Also what will a 24mm nikkor lens turn into using the RED camera? (I hate this math)
Jay
Click to expand...

The mount is not yet available.

A 24mm. But in cinema terms, which makes it a normal lens wheras on a 35mm still camera it would be wide. In terms of a comparison think of the 24mm as a 41mm lens on a 35mm full frame still camera.
 
Michael Morlan said:
I'm near finished purchasing my personal Nikon primes and zooms. I’ll be packaging them for cine with adapter rings, iris ball bearings removed, etc. I wanted all manual for the primes until I see a proven Birger mount. I may upgrade as things develop.

 24mm f2 AI-s
 35mm f1.4 AI-s
 50mm f1.4 AI-s
 85mm f1.4 AI-s
 105mm f1.8 AI-s
 17-35mm f2.8 AF ED-IF - still to purchase
 80-200mm f/2.8 AF D - understand the Birger will only control AF-S

iris ball bearing - there was a video showing how to remove the ball bearing from a Nikon lens. Does anyone recall where that is? It seemed simple enough. If I can't get a good shop rate for the removal on my manual focus lenses, I may enjoy doing it myself.

gear rings - I'm heavily considering the custom aluminum gear rings made by JBK Cine. $95 each. Just submit your focus ring diameter. Jerry also makes a small Delrin plastic stop for those AF lenses. $25

dressing the front of the lens - I'm considering step up rings to 77mm for all the smaller primes. (The zooms are 77mm.) Then an 80mm donut on the matte box I ultimately choose. 77mm clip-on lens caps are $22/10 on eBay.

keeping it safe - The Storm Case im2400 for the primes and im2050 for shorter zooms.

Just under $5K for everything.

Thoughts, opinions, razzies?

Thanks,

Michael
Click to expand...

Michael,

You seem to be doing the exact thing I am planning on doing. With the Nikon mount expected to arrive sometime in Nov (As per Jim yesterday). I have decided to take this route in order to get a feel for the camera and shoot some on my own before diving into major big lenses.

What I would like to see from someone however, is a more idiot proof post along the lines what needs to be done to a lens to make it work well with RED.

From a common sense standpoint, it looks like you are rigging up the lens to allow you to pull focus with it. Am I correct? As for the ball bearings, adaptor rings, etc.. I am afraid you left me in the dust.

Evin did a FANTASTIC job reviewing all the lenses. Now what I would love would be a:

"You have your mount. You have your Nikkor lens, here's what you do with it to make it "cine" style.

I hope I am not alone here.

Jay
 
Jay, to answer your questions:

iris ring - Still lenses click into each of the standard f-stops while cine lenses do not. Cine lens aperture rings have a smooth movement since f-stops (or t-stops in most cases) are often set at 1/2 stops and even 1/3 stops and, as needed, are even "pulled" during a shot. Still lenses may be adapted for cinematic use by removing the mechanism (a ball bearing or spring) that creates the clicks.

adapter rings - Still lenses come in all sizes and shapes while a set of matched cine lenses generally (but not always) have the same diameter at the front of the lens. This way they mate with the back of the matte box most conveniently. My lenses range from 52mm to 77mm fronts.

While changeable "donuts" at the back of the matte box can accommodate different lens fronts, it is more common to have a single standard in the lenses. Still lenses may be adapted for use with a cine matte box by creating a common lens diameter through the use of step-up rings like those here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180166404378&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008

gear rings - The focus ring of still lenses are meant to be grasped by the photographer's hand. Cine lenses are meant to be controlled by the follow-focus system by means of a standard gear ring on the lens barrel. I'll be adding gear rings to create a common interface between lenses and follow focus.

Hope that helps,

Michael
 
I got back home from three weeks out of town to discover most of my lenses waiting for me. Just like Christmas!

I was pleased to discover that the Nikon 80-200 AF lens has a very hard stop at the ends of the focus range when switched to manual mode on the lens barrel. No need for focus ring stops on this lens. The focus ring also has a limiting switch on the barrel to prevent you from going into the macro range by accident.

I was surprised at the irony that the "EX+" rated lens I bought from the very reputable KEH.com had a severe deformation in the filter ring while all the lenses I bought from various eBay sellers are perfect upon initial inspection.

M
 
Michael Morlan said:
Jay, to answer your questions:

iris ring - Still lenses click into each of the standard f-stops while cine lenses do not. Cine lens aperture rings have a smooth movement since f-stops (or t-stops in most cases) are often set at 1/2 stops and even 1/3 stops and, as needed, are even "pulled" during a shot. Still lenses may be adapted for cinematic use by removing the mechanism (a ball bearing or spring) that creates the clicks.

adapter rings - Still lenses come in all sizes and shapes while a set of matched cine lenses generally (but not always) have the same diameter at the front of the lens. This way they mate with the back of the matte box most conveniently. My lenses range from 52mm to 77mm fronts.

While changeable "donuts" at the back of the matte box can accommodate different lens fronts, it is more common to have a single standard in the lenses. Still lenses may be adapted for use with a cine matte box by creating a common lens diameter through the use of step-up rings like those here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180166404378&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008

gear rings - The focus ring of still lenses are meant to be grasped by the photographer's hand. Cine lenses are meant to be controlled by the follow-focus system by means of a standard gear ring on the lens barrel. I'll be adding gear rings to create a common interface between lenses and follow focus.

Hope that helps,

Michael
Click to expand...


Michael,

I never ceased to be amazed by how much I can learn from somone each day. Today you have been my best teacher.

I have a much better understanding of what needs to be done now in terms of lenses.

I know Evin said the "G" series lenses were to be avoided until the Birger Mount, but to you have any advice as to the type of Nikon lenses I should look for?

Thanks again
Jay
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
I know Evin said the "G" series lenses were to be avoided until the Birger Mount, but to you have any advice as to the type of Nikon lenses I should look for?
Click to expand...

The "G" lenses have no manual iris ring so they require electronic control. Any of the AI or AI-s manual lenses will be great with the RED One. Also, any of the AF (auto-focus) lenses that include an aperture ring.

Supposedly, the Birger mount will only operate the AF-S lenses due to some inclusion of of internal lens motors. (I may be replacing my AF 80-200 zoom with some AF-S version if the Birger turns out to be everything the community is hoping for.)

The challenge with most AF lenses is a fully-rotating focus ring. The ring continues to rotate (with a bit more resistance) after the focus has reached its limit. As a result, the marks made on follow focus wheels can be thrown out of sync with the lens. (Not unlike when the FF gear accidentally becomes disengaged from the lens gear on occasion.) The use of a "hard stop" - a small clamp on the lens gear that stops the follow focus from turning further - can solve this issue.
 
Okay, here they are in a case and ready for the set:

264_1193815230.jpg

Nikon 24mm f2.0, 35mm f1.4, 50mm f1.4, 85mm f1.4, 105mm f1.8 w/temporary Red Rock Micro gear rings in a Storm iM2400 case. Jerry at JBKCine is making custom aluminum gears.

264_1193815282.jpg

Nikon AF-D 80-200mm f2.8 w/Red Rock Micro gear ring in a Storm iM2050 case. The RR ring is probably permanent since you can't get a regular gear ring over the non-removable tripod support mount.

I've done some initial tests and all are resolving pretty well. (I need to borrow a Nikon SLR to really check.) The 50mm focus barrel has a bit of lateral play in it so I'll definitely be replacing/repairing it.

Still waiting on my 17-35mm f2.8 from KEH.
 
Nice set Michael. I have a 24mm f/2.8 too and I find it to be one of my sweetest lenses. I own some of the old school ones like the 75-300mm f/3.5 and the E series 75-150mm f/3.5-6 and the 100mm f/2.8 (both of which I have high regard for, although people who don't know better look down on them), and I use them with JVC HD200 and a Brevis adapter. Now, for the RED I'm looking forward to acquiring the new Full Frame FX 24-70mm and 70-200mm f/2.8 zooms, and perhaps a pair of Zeiss ZF's, namely the 35mm and the 85mm.
 
Jaadgy, be aware the 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 have no aperture ring AFAIK (those damn G lenses...). That's why Michael (and I, and the Bourne people maybe?) went for the 80-200 AF-D. It's also a lot cheaper. On the downside, if Birger comes out with a killer Nikon solution, maybe we'll be kicking ourselves ;)

Michael, I have a very similar lens set to you and have used the Redrock rings on them too. Any reason why you believe the Redrock rings are inadequate? Some large flaw that I overlooked or simply that they seemed a bit plastic and not permanent?

Any reason why you prefer JBK Cine ones to the Brevis ones:
http://www.cinevate.com/catalog/pro...id=41&osCsid=869833f7c19a585a72319a0555a3c7d6
and SGpro ones?
http://www.sgpro.co.uk/pages/order/orderffgears.html

Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to have mentioned in passing that JBK Cine makes hard stops that you can use to solve the 17-35's most glaring flaw (eg it keeps turning past infinity)? I'm very interested in hearing how that works.

Congrats! It looks very nice.

Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with choosing a follow focus next ;) Arri LFF-1 reversed? Willytech? Bartech or other remote system? Reversed SGpro? I heard a rumor that the Chrosziel one can also be reversed to make Nikons focus in a cine direction but cannot confirm. Or is focus direction not an issue for you? That'd give you more choices... maybe you are looking at the JBKCine one to go with your gears(I couldn't tell if it could be mounted in reverse or not)?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Bruce Allen said:
Jaadgy, be aware the 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 have no aperture ring AFAIK (those damn G lenses...). That's why Michael (and I, and the Bourne people maybe?) went for the 80-200 AF-D. It's also a lot cheaper. On the downside, if Birger comes out with a killer Nikon solution, maybe we'll be kicking ourselves ;)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...

Bruce, the 80-200 AF-D is a great lens, probably the best buy as far as nikkor zooms go; plus it's autofocus is pretty fast. However, I remember thinking "Why Bruce, why!!! when you announced you had just purchased an AF-D version instead of AF-S 'cause you will be kicking yourself when you finally get your hands on the Birger Mount, which will only work with AF-S lenses and I'm sure wil be quite a magnificent tool.
Now, as far as the absence of aperture ring on the FX lenses, no worries- G lenses are your friends if you're gonna be using the Birger mount. The Zeiss ZF's and the manual Nikkors are for the regular Nikon mount made by RED. I'll be getting the RedRock Mattebox and FollowFocus (BTW, although these FF's have no hard stops, Brian Valente says they can be added)
Anyway, it's not too late to sell the AF-D and get your hands on an AFS. I'd recommend anyone to get the 70-200mm f/2.8 for the extra mm's and the VR.
 
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