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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Ambush test...

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Thanks Andy - your thoughts on this are appreciated.

Graeme
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi,

Yes I see what your saying, don't bother to test a Red because it is better in every possible situation!

You don't have any hidden agenda do you?

Stephen
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Of course Stephen because so many of the members that are stateing how much better red is then any other camera on earth have shot with reds under so many circumstances again and again that they know exactly how they react under every circumstance.
 
For camera testing, I advocate DIY. There's no one that measures or uses cameras like you, so DIY is the very best option.

Finner - good comment - you've got to learn how everything reacts in different circumstances. I've done that with every camera I've bought. It's the only way to get the best out of them.

Graeme
 
battistella said:
Jarred shows up to a CAMERA TEST and gets heckled. What a joke! It's plain unprofessional.
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.....and Ballsy to say the least. I mean, have you seen Jarred? I haven't but by all accounts he makes The Rock look like The Pebble!!......:w00t:
 
This is such a slippery slope. I can see Jim's point of view on this. They have been as honest and open as a company can be when it comes to developing a new product. They are just looking for the same respect back. Problem is, not all companies are going to play that way, just a fact of life.

David, Stephen, Finner, and others have touched on what I think is the most important thing here. Camera testing comes down to the individual(s) who is going to be using it, the requirements of the production, and the aesthetic of the production. That's why film is not going away tomorrow. It still fits people's needs on various productions, whether Red is out there or not. To me, the beauty of Red is they have provided us (and I'm referring to everyone that wants to use this camera, pros and amateurs alike) another artistic tool to turn to. Maybe you will shoot all of your projects with it, maybe some, maybe none, but it is there. It will have a quality of its own. I truly believe that Jim and the rest of the team has nothing to worry about if they make the camera as wonderful as we all hope it will be. Their success will rely on what they deliver. I think the camera is currently still in an evolutionary state, and will surely improve and when it does, they will reap the benefits of their labor.

I hope a secret test doesn't get in the way of that evolution. There are a lot of people looking forward to shooting with it.

Regards,
Steve
 
I think from Jim's perspective it is a little strange that anybody and I mean anybody who is using the camera right now for any situation would not want support from Red to get the best possible results is just strange and I don't think he's being paranoid at all. Think about all the time, energy and effort a few people have put into this project to get the best images the customer can.

The reason I am saying this is because from what I read on this board, it seems like every person who is holding a Red camera right now has direct access to the top people on Red and they seem to be using this communication to get help with this new piece of hardware/technology. Both sides understand it is in its infancy as Jim has stated numerous times. If this open channel exists at this stage, why would anyone who is using the camera for whatever purpose not take advantage of it? It is simply counter-intuituve in terms of shooting with the camera, test or no test...
 
I'm pretty concerned about this sort of nastiness, but I can at least say that there are plenty of us who are really spreading the word about Red, I brought a small contingent of filmmakers from the UK across to IBC to have a look. They were all impressed and will continue to spread the word. Hopefully for every article that attempts to kneecap the Red, there'll be those of us countering it.
 
Myktyl said:
Hopefully for every article that attempts to kneecap the Red, there'll be those of us countering it.
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let the people do what they want to do and want to say. There are enough people convinced by Red, and many other doubting on Red.
When we startet HD in 2001 (sorry for that, but the germans are a little late with new technologies) with our first HDW F900 we had a lot of dp´s refusing to touch this camera. hree years later they came back asking for workshops and jobs on HD....
Give the poor people some time... they have to learn, and they will learn.
 
ludmux said:
let the people do what they want to do and want to say. There are enough people convinced by Red, and many other doubting on Red.
When we startet HD in 2001 (sorry for that, but the germans are a little late with new technologies) with our first HDW F900 we had a lot of dp´s refusing to touch this camera. hree years later they came back asking for workshops and jobs on HD....
Give the poor people some time... they have to learn, and they will learn.
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same experience here in berlin, we started with our HDCAM cameras in 2002.
I however think that the rental price for reds bodys will be pretty low soon, reflecting their lower purchase price, and that will certainly help making the camera very popular.

One thing is really funny: Meanwhile there are the first dps which were anti-hdcam/cinealta, and only film was good in 2002... Some of them now are anti-red and only hdcam and film is good...
 
Once you jump into the ring with the heavyweights you have to expect hard punches but that doesn't mean Jim should have to sit in the corner and take the below the belt blows.

I welcome these tests but lets be fair about them plus everyone should always go and do their own tests anyway. Kodak gives out free film for testing, Panavision has a testing area, etc. There is a reason for this and every project has its own sets of demands.
 
Test-cameras

Test-cameras

Jannard said:
If someone wants to "win" a test... it is pretty easy. Just don't invite the other players.

We are suggesting a test where all the other players are invited.

Jim
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Please, make a fair test, with green screen, and everything! I'm really curious.
There is an invite list: :w00t:
Panavision Genesis
Sony Cinealta F23 (F900 and F950 should be nice too)
Thomson Viper Filmstream Camera
Arri D20
Silicon Imaging 2K
Phantom 4K/125
Kinor DC2K and DC4K
Kinetta 4K
Dalsa Origin 4K

This should be a very very fine test! These are all DC cameras... :innocent:
 
LAprod said:
Please, make a fair test, with green screen, and everything! I'm really curious.
There is an invite list: :w00t:
Panavision Genesis
Sony Cinealta F23 (F900 and F950 should be nice too)
Thomson Viper Filmstream Camera
Arri D20
Silicon Imaging 2K
Phantom 4K/125
Kinor DC2K and DC4K
Kinetta 4K
Dalsa Origin 4K

This should be a very very fine test! These are all DC cameras... :innocent:
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I know somebody who would love to have a kinetta to send out for testing. The creator... just as soon as it can get made. :) Talk about an ambush test.
 
Mostly from the mistakes of others, this is what I have learnt from the numerous digital vs film tests since 2001.

One has to learn how to use the camera and process the image before making a comparison!

Sympathy and understanding of the sensor doesn't come without direct experience.

The exploration in an afternoon by trial and error of what a new sensor can do both technically and aesthetically should not be called "testing".

For some DPs the imperical information from a scientific test can help formulate the practical implementation of exposure, colour and contrast control to realise a vision.


Reliance on test material and opinion of others is not always a sound foundation for true understanding, although specific examples if particularly relevant to a project can help to some degree if you trust the methodology and reporting of the test.


Don't jump to conlusions after one test.


Mike Brennan
 
I strongly believe in testing for yourself.
How can you trust a competitor to deliver honest findings.
 
People in Serbia say “Fear have big eyes”. Kodak testers definitely got big eye syndrome. We also say “lie have short legs”. Short legs and big eyes will not bring you far away.
In the edge areas of the world like Serbia that fear is show up in more dramatic way despite market weakness.
We are waiting our RED camera and preparing presentation in huge film theatre, 4000 people, Sony 4K projector, 32 m wide screen (can’t use all 32 : -) built up by Tito for nonaligned countries congresses 40 years ago (mention my plan to Ted at IBC). We already attract attention from local Kodak film laboratory people. For them we are guerilla that will take over the market and they will try to destroy us while we are small (we have the sentence for this situation also “small pool, a lot of alligators inside” )
So RED is on the extremely good direction of movement.

Cheers

Pop
 
Im gonna freeze this thread since we seem to be drifting to Personal Attacks..
 
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