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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ISO 500-4000 comparison...

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There are a large variety of production genres besides narrative cinema that RED One will be used on. The biggest percentage of those other genres entail non-union work, utilizing medium to small crews where the DP/cinematographer is often also the editor - thus the same person acquiring the RAW images in those genres/crew situations, will also be editing the images. RED One shooting 4k RC RAW could be an excellent application for these scenarios.

The very tip of the RED One usage iceberg is large crew, union, narrative cinema, but the other 9/10 of the iceberg beneath the water is all the other cine-style and EFP style medium/small crew, non-union productions that could be adopting RED One. With RED One, 4k RC RAW production could penetrate those genres and productions rather quickly for the same reason DSLRs have penetrated still photography rapidly - shoot RAW at acquisition, then "develop" and color correct afterwards with software. The RED RC RAW workflow closely parallels that of its close relative - the DSLR.
 
goffb said:
I think any shot higher than 2000 ISO is a "last resort" thing to do anyway
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I disagree, these images have convinced me that RED is the camera of exposed night skies and cityscapes. I'll be underlighting my forgrounds and cranking the gain, trading noise for a view of the world as I think it truly needs to be seen. The better it looks at 2000 or 4000 ISO the happier I'll be.

IBloom
 
Excellent point, Gibby. I'm in total agreement. In fact, I was going to mention something along the same lines (perhaps not as articulately as you put it), :) but I got caught up in writing from one point of view.

It's funny, sometimes it seems so difficult to remain objective when trying to tackle any particular topic regarding the RED's capabilities. First I'll think I am discussing an issue that effects only the big-budget large-crewed union shows, and then I realize that this also can effect an Indy or EFP or ENG or......

It definitely takes some discipline to try and remain objective when imagining the feature set of the RED ONE in use on productions of all types.

The fact that the Camera is capable to cover such a wide spectrum is inevitably going to help us all receive a better product in the end. :)
 
Very true Casey...

Narrative cinema is high-profile and gets a lot of media attention - and it certainly get a lot of attention on RED User. But the fact remains that RED One is a scalable, flexible, adaptable system that can be used in a wide variety of cine style and EFP style production genres that have nothing to do with narrative cinema - and it will be. In one of my recent magazine articles I listed about 17 potential genres for use of RED One, with recommended resolutions. I produce/direct/ shoot in all of those genres - in fact, narrative cinema is about the only production genre that RED One can be used in that I haven't worked in.

Side note: Through the mid-'80's when I lived in Manhattan Beach, I was similtaneously working as a director/cinematographer for non-union national television programs, while at the same time I was also a member of SAG and AFTRA working as an actor in commercials and daytime television. Working in front of the lens really helped me in my work behind the lens, and vice versa. Sometime in the reasonable near future I'll produce/direct/shoot in narrative cinema.
 
response to sidenote: wow Steve, you and I seem to have a lot in common as far as variety goes. I am a member of the local 695 and primarily have now been working on Features and Episodic TV for the past 5 years doing Video Coordinating. But in between gigs, I occasionally am doing broadcast and corporate work... (directing, technical directing, editing, graphic design, FX work, etc.)

Also, I am a member of SAG and have done my share of work in front of the Camera. I too believe that this will help me as a well rounded Director as I pursue that dream. Looking forward to meeting you at LART :)

Anyway, back on topic (sort of)... yes I think that having more options re: ISO and RAW w/metadata is going to provide for some interesting new options during production.
 
So here is a question for Jim and the team. Will we be able to smoothly rack the sensitivity of the chip with say an external controller or will the settings be incremental changes from a menu of say a third of a stop?

IBloom
 
Comment on "the line": the thing I love about post is that it's only a mistake if it goes out the door. Red is not out the door yet, so there are no mistakes. We basically have a front row seat (or maybe fifth row seat) to the creation process, so we can see evolution in progress. The tweaking continues. Thankfully we're beyond the offline!

And as for once it's "out the door", every show I've made has things I want to improve, but I had to finish them at some point. Red will continue to evolve, unlike the shows that we have to release. And the results of that evolution can be applied to the camera that we already own. Can't beat that!


About ASA, I want the ability to increase the sensitivity to what some would call an unusable level; it may not be appropriate for some things, but I want to be able to decide that for myself. This weekend is blowing my mind! And to think I was starting to have unpure thoughts about the HPX500 and it's sensitivity . . . . .
 
Amazing, Jim.
Thanks a lot.

Just a simple question. Can you please post a 30/60 frame clip of a fraction of these boards? Just to see the "movement" of the noise...
 
Sorry,
just realized there are a already full thread about this request...
 
HOLY FUCKING SHIT! And I was real f-cking worried about light sensitivity at 4K! Am I the only one pissing my pants here over this?!?!?! AWESOME work, RED TEAM!!! I've been on a self-imposed, "NO REDUSER" diet for a few weeks, and look what happens! I think the skeptics will be eating their hats AND their shorts once RED ships!
 
ibloom said:
I disagree, these images have convinced me that RED is the camera of exposed night skies and cityscapes. I'll be underlighting my forgrounds and cranking the gain, trading noise for a view of the world as I think it truly needs to be seen. The better it looks at 2000 or 4000 ISO the happier I'll be.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY, my thoughts as well . . . Although, I'll probably never need to go above ISO1000. My DSR450 sees in the frickkin' dark, and it's only an f/11 @ 2,000 lux camera. I can shoot entire night exteriors with just exisiting mercury vapor street lights and a Kamio!
 
Ralph Oshiro said:
EXACTLY, my thoughts as well . . . Although, I'll probably never need to go above ISO1000. My DSR450 sees in the frickkin' dark, and it's only an f/11 @ 2,000 lux camera. I can shoot entire night exteriors with just exisiting mercury vapor street lights and a Kamio!
Click to expand...

Well I guess it depends on what lenses and what your depth of field needs be. One of my favorite parts of Dion Beebe's work on Viper was taking advantage of gain in order to show that orange glow on the clouds and small amounts of detail in difficult places like looking out across an ocean at night. There are some beautiful places that your eye can see but cinematography has thus far had too ignore. My hope is that with cameras like this and maybe some interframe noise reduction, these things become commonplace. I really think that seeing detail in dark wide landscapes will be the defining look of this new era of cinematography.

Which brings up an important question, and that is, what about REDCODE and gain. Obviously the more noise the worse the compression but where are the limits. Will shooting with high gain definitely be an optical port thing.

IBloom
 
Ralph Oshiro said:
HOLY FUCKING SHIT! And I was real f-cking worried about light sensitivity at 4K! Am I the only one pissing my pants here over this?!?!?! AWESOME work, RED TEAM!!! I've been on a self-imposed, "NO REDUSER" diet for a few weeks, and look what happens! I think the skeptics will be eating their hats AND their shorts once RED ships!
Click to expand...

Get Ralph a dry pair of pants, please.
 
Jim, can you or someone on the team comment about the color fluctuations between the frames? i loaded the into pshop and noticed a slight shift in the grey values as the ISO changed. Also with some extreme levels crunching that row of pixels athe the top of the 4000 frame, became evident in all of them. what is that? bad scan row? timing issue?

_mike
 
We've not calibrated over the full exposure range yet. Once that's done, you should not notice shifts. We know about the row of pixels - fix is in the works now.

Graeme
 
There also appeared to be a magenta/green gradient in the 32,000 iso. Is that just a small lens anomaly magnified or a DSP characteristic which can be compensated for?
 
When I do the calibration, I'll be looking at that in more detail. However, with a gain of 7 stops, it does highlight everything in the entire chain.....

Graeme
 
im.thatoneguy said:
There also appeared to be a magenta/green gradient in the 32,000 iso. Is that just a small lens anomaly magnified or a DSP characteristic which can be compensated for?
Click to expand...

Correcting for anomalies at ISO 32000 is not the highest priority on our list... but yes, it can be corrected for. All the posts were made to show the elasticity of our image and to have a bit of fun. None are perfect, but we haven't come near to finishing the DSP.

We heard that one of our competitors recently said that RED was a noisy ISO 250 camera. We kinda wanted to poke a bit back at them. :-)

Jim
 
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