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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ISO 500-4000 comparison...

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"The Line"

"The Line"

Most electronic camera manufacturers would deliver a camera with a problem like "the line" and not tell you about it.


Be thankful that we know about it and it isn't an issue, unless you are shooting black cats in a coal mine.


Anyway, I'll bet that every issue you see now is one less you'll have in your camera.

Still, I'll be surprised if there isn't the odd bug or three but if Jims open communication continues at least we will know about a schedule for fixing bugs.

Ask early adopters of cinelata kit how much they could have saved themselves and their clients, had Sony had been more "communicative" about problems.


Jims openness at posting frame grabs of a camera in development, at some risk to himself in giving ammo to the opposition, will ultimately save RED owners money.


Bravo Jim.



Mike Brennan
 
And I thought the line was a homage to the horizontal control wires in Sony Trinitron CRTs. :whistling:

Anyway, I'm glad you fixed it! Way to go! :tongue:
 
Keith Nealy said:
Jim,

Even my wife is impressed at the speed of your answer and that the teams response is "like white on rice".

You guys are amazing and in the encyclopedia under the word "dedicated"... is your picture.

Aloha,

Keith
Click to expand...

Keith, hope your wife wasn't offended by my previous post. Have edited it to remove any offensive parts. Sometimes some of us forget that REDuser.net is not strictly a "good ole boys club." Again, apologies if required.
 
No worries...No offense taken.

But it reminds me of a joke about the guy who goes to a hooker and drops his pants.

She begins to laugh hysterically and says "who do you think you're going to please with that thing?"

He replys "Why me , of course."

Aloha,

Keith
 
Keith Nealy said:
Jim,

Even my wife is impressed at the speed of your answer and that the teams response is "like white on rice".

You guys are amazing and in the encyclopedia under the word "dedicated"... is your picture.

Aloha,

Keith
Click to expand...

Hey Keith,

- You guys make a great team...please tell her I said hello.
 
Keith Nealy said:
No worries...No offense taken.

But it reminds me of a joke about the guy who goes to a hooker and drops his pants.

She begins to laugh hysterically and says "who do you think you're going to please with that thing?"

He replys "Why me , of course."

Aloha,

Keith
Click to expand...

Was thinking of that very joke, and that was going to be my comeback for any snickering response!

Now I'll get off this thread and let the pros get back to their business.
 
Aloha Casey-

Sara says "Hi" and please come visit us here in Hawaii any time.

Glad to see you so active here with RED.

(For those of you reading this thread, Casey and used to work together many years ago back on the East Coast (USA).)

I'm sure are paths will cross again especially now that we have a RED connection. I hope to get mine delivered in December-January so maybe I can get you to "jump the puddle" to work on a feature.

Until then, see you online...

aloha,

Keith
 
big lebowski said:
And I thought the line was a homage to the horizontal control wires in Sony Trinitron CRTs.
Click to expand...

Ya have to love it. 30000 for an 27" HD CRT and it flickers and has a line through it.
 
ASA control

ASA control

It would be amazing if we could dial up the ASA in small increments rather than full stop gain jumps like on other digital cameras(+3,+6,+9). 1/4 of a stop increments or something would so beneficial.

For Example: Let's say you are out in a dark night exterior location with the usual mix of 60hz sources like sodium vapors and flourecents. You need a 1/3 stop more exposure to really see what you want to see. You don't want to commit to the noise of the usual full stop increase in gain(+3,+6,+9), you can't or don't want to open up on the lens for focus/DOF reasons, and you can't open the shutter past 180 because of those mixed 60hz sources flickering. Thus you just adjust your ASA/Gain a 1/3 of a stop instead of a full one. Is it impossible to have this level of control over the gain or would it be a difficult thing engineering wise?

Overall this is fantastic news. I've been longing for this kind or resolution and sensitivity for years. I hope this is it. 1000T Vision 2 never came. Although 5218 pushed 1 is impressive. I hope it looks as good as I suspect in motion.
 
Keith Nealy said:
Aloha Casey-

Sara says "Hi" and please come visit us here in Hawaii any time.

Glad to see you so active here with RED.

(For those of you reading this thread, Casey and I used to work together many years ago back on the East Coast (USA).)

I'm sure are paths will cross again especially now that we have a RED connection. I hope to get mine delivered in December-January so maybe I can get you to "jump the puddle" to work on a feature.

Until then, see you online...

aloha,

Keith
Click to expand...

Thanks Keith, sounds great. When you get your camera, send me a call sheet and I'll be there! :biggrin:

All the best,
 
Pretty impressive! It looks like shooting ISO 1000-1500 could be a reality.

DLSRs crap out at that kind of ISO.
 
Tom said:
Pretty impressive! It looks like shooting ISO 1000-1500 could be a reality.

DLSRs crap out at that kind of ISO.
Click to expand...


That's what it looks like to me as well. Hence my thoughts for 1/4 stop control of ASA/gain. To get right in there between 1000 and 1500. At 2000 the color and noise appear to take a significant shift although it is hard to say much without seeing it in motion and at full res. The 5218/Red 2000 grey card split that Brooke posted is encouriging but looking at the Red 2000 frame by itself it looks like that is when you start taking a hit. All speculation at this point. If 2000 looked like 5218 pushed one or even 1.5 then it would be completely usable for most narrative applications. The color shifts could be corrected. However, Grain/Noise identify a 2D surface(the screen or monitor) thus making the implied viewing experince less 3D. Which is what we usually want to imply to the audience 90% of the time we make a movie. To see through the 2D screen and into the world of the story.
 
I think RGB gain is in 10th stop increments. It certainly is in the REDCINE decode, which is what we're doing.

Remember, this is all without noise reduction, which you could always apply if you want.
 
I think the only mistake you (red) did was not to mention it (the line) right at this thread's start. So people, including me had to wonder about it. I only was thinking: ok, that's some artifact that comes up at high gain values or tremendous amounts of pushing. With "resident defect" I meant issues like those we could only arrange ourselves with CCD's, like vertical smear and the likes. "Defect" wasn't meant like it was some manufacturing issue that was just left there while knowing about it.
Sorry for any misunderstandings.
 
That's great news Graeme. That reminds me I wanted to ask you about that. Say we are exposing at 2000 asa. What would I be seeing on tha monitor in realtime on set if the gain is added in REDCINE later. I hope 2000 still. Or is there some amount REDCINE onboard in the camera.

Is there going to be noise reduction in REDCINE? I know you know all about it. Reducing noise without losing too much sharpness seems to be the criteria for a good NR.
 
The RGB monitoring pathway runs on the same image processing code as REDCINE, so you'd dial in +3.0EV if you rate the camera at 250 but are wanting to see it at 2000. This gets stored in the metadata.
 
Wow. So would you be able to dial it back later if you wanted to becasue the image is still recorded natively at 250 asa?
 
Yes. I guess I know all this having shot with the Viper a couple times and the way LUTs work. It is still hard to mentally change the workflow in my brain to this mode after being so used to comitting to a look. Which there is something to be said for. Although control/detail wise this is fantastic and exciting. However, it sure takes a whole hell of a lot of power away from the DP as being master of the image. Especially on set, everyone had their opinion. Oh and be sure to write the color correction in your contract.
 
heheh - yeah really. Well, the way I see it, all of this gets worked out well in advance of shooting anyway (on-set workflow) - so I don't see that being too much of an issue. I'm sure there may be exceptions, but typically, I wouldn't think it would cause too many problems.

If anything, I would think it opens up opportunities for the DP while in the field to try new ideas out as they come. Gonna be interesting for sure. :biggrin:
 
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