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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

any HD set monitors <$1K worth considering?

Michael Morlan

Michael Morlan

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I'm not up to spending $4K+ on an HD monitoring solution just yet. There are a bunch of <$1K monitors. Does anyone have any experience/recommendations for monitors that deliver "good-enough" picture and accuracy at that price-point? What transcoding boxes would you use?

M
 
Michael Morlan said:
I'm not up to spending $4K+ on an HD monitoring solution just yet. There are a bunch of <$1K monitors. Does anyone have any experience/recommendations for monitors that deliver "good-enough" picture and accuracy at that price-point? What transcoding boxes would you use?

M
Click to expand...

1. What size?
2. Is this for the client, the director, or the person pulling focus?
3. Are you primarily interested in color accuracy, or resolution?
4. Do you really need features such as blue-only, overscan, etc?
5. Are you okay with using the Red's HDMI-out, or do you want your sub-$1000 monitor to have HD-SDI in as well?
6. Transcoding boxes are pretty expensive.

Depending on your answers to the above, you could go with anything from a CRT to a small pro LCD (although it's hard to find one with HDMI or HD-SDI inputs for $1k), to a consumer HDTV, to a 24" monitor with a transcoding box (although again, that'd be pushing $1k)... maybe check out used options?

Basically, it's a compromise between:
1. size & resolution (smaller & high res = more expensive)
2. custom pro-only features (blue-only, overscan, etc = more expensive)
3. inputs (HD-SDI adds a significant premium)
4. color accuracy (for pro color calibration stuff, it's extra, of course)

Add into the mix the whole "economies of scale" thing - the consumer stuff is often inherently better value because of it. Of course with the consumer stuff you have irritating things like plastic construction, stupid bulk we don't need (big speakers, etc), inability to mount easily and the lack of monitors smaller than 15" with high resolution.

Personally, I didn't like the options on the market either. My thoughts are:
1. getting everything in focus is something you can't fix in post. Resolution is vitally important.
2. with Red, you are recording RAW, which gives you more latitude to color-correct in post. Hence, a an absolutely-perfectly-color-calibrated monitor is not needed.
3. HD-SDI adds a huge amount to the cost. So let's use HDMI if possible

On that lines, I'll be selling my own design of a 10.6" 1280x768 LCD for around $850. Give me a week's time - pics of the prototype will follow.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Michael Morlan said:
Hi Bruce,

I'll clarify: What <$1K monitors exist that will be good enough for client/director monitoring? A 1080 or 2K pixel-for-pixel display would be ideal.
Click to expand...

2K pixel-for-pixel: no combination available below $1000

1080: Find a bulky consumer HDTV with HDMI in. MAYBE a computer monitor will work with a HDMI -> DVI connector, but it might not. For example, the HV20's HDMI output gives trouble when connected to HDMI -> DVI converters and Dell monitors (it goes down to 480p).

Of course, the above only works IF the Red supports 1080 out via HDMI (not sure if it does, I read somewhere here it maxes out at 720p and only does 1080 via HD-SDI?)

By the way, most clients probably don't need a full 1080p monitor. Good ones are used to less (especially those used to film video taps ;)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
As a director, I'd happily watch an SD monitor and rely on the D.P.'s judgement regarding picture (like one would on a film set.) But, when I'm the D.P., I find it hard to ask the same of my clients/directors. Everyone wants to see the finished image today.

So, a 720p monitor solution is fine as well as long as one can rely on sufficiently accurate colorimetry, etc. I just don't want to spend $4K+ on something that should be attainable for less.

M
 
I go with this HD solution for on set client/director monitoring:

Using the RED's HD-SDI Master output (Dual link 4:4:4 or 2 x 4:2:2)
+
Blackmagic HDLink Pro (US$795) or HDLink (US$445)
+
Apple Cinema Dispaly 23" (US$899)

That should be fine for any client/director.

hdlink-location.jpg

"HDLink Utility allows you to upload gamma lookup tables in simple
tab-separated text format, which can then be loaded into HDLink via USB. "
More>>
http://www.decklink.com/products/hdlink/software/

If you shoot 4K with RED then offer clients to watch in the maximum available master monitor output from the cam that is 1080p.
Costs a bit more then $1K but could make sense.
 
limited HDMI

limited HDMI

Chris Kenny said:
Yeah, Red's HDMI is only 720p.
Click to expand...

Really? That's the first I've heard of it. So we have no way to exhibit our footage in 1080P on any kind of large, affordable display without some SDI workaround and extra expense? That is a bummer. Not only does this hamper affordable on-set near-2K monitoring, but I was counting on plugging the camera into large TVs for reviewing footage or possibly even screening material with better quality than we'll eventually have with a Blu-Ray or HD DVD.

Anybody have insight on why this limitation exists? It also seems to preclude future viewfinders or LCD panels with higher resolution than the initial offerings.
 
It was discussed a while back... And unless something has changed, the HDMI out is 720p only -- for now. I think this has to do with the EVF and LCD interfaces. My guess is that since they're DVI/HDMI based, that the HDMI output as well as the EVF / LCD connections are all operating off the same HDMI chipset.

1080p / 2K is available via the dual-link SDI output. I would think an SDI to DVI converter combined with a Dell 30" display could be one killer set monitoring solution and still well under $2K. A 24" version of the same would come in right about $1K if you were to bargain shop a bit.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
1080p / 2K is available via the dual-link SDI output. I would think an SDI to DVI converter combined with a Dell 30" display could be one killer set monitoring solution and still well under $2K.
Click to expand...

If 2K is also available for sure then I will offer 2K on set monitoring with 30" Apple Cinema display.
 
Seriously,

This is a beautful HD monitor with SDI inputs. They even make a porta brace case for it:

http://www.panasonic.ca/english/Broadcast/broadcast/monitors/btlh1700w.asp

Maybe by the time RE ships the price might drop. The advantages.

1. Multiple frame rates. (a 46 inch sharp Aquos, for example, can not handle any 23.98 frame rates. That might mean you need two converters for it.

2. Multiple HD/SD formats. Will handle many situations.

3. High contrast and excellent viewing angle.

4. built in waveform monitor.

5. It's for professional use and it is feature rich. Well worth the dollars and one of the most accurate panels I have seen.

6. Works with RED out of the box


David
 
I almost bought one of those Panny 17" monitors about 8 months ago. In some ways I wish that I had. Oh well... I'll pass now since the price is still $4K and it only does 720p/768p. I'm going to hold out and see what RED comes up with, even though it probably won't fit into my budget.
 
$4,000 for 1080p via HDSI is pretty damn reasonable IMHO - I am starting to feel like everybody on this forum wants and expects pro gear cheaper than consumer gear ...

I usually use the Panasonic - I actually am very impressed with the new JVC LCDs (also $4,000 for 24") - the new Sony looks great but WAY too expensive -

but for UNDER $4K you may as well but a 720p consumer LCD and just run it off of the HDMI from the camera (which is always 720) - so, you have a bit less resolution than 1080 - but 1080 is a bit less resolution than 4K ...

I do not think you will be using your eye on a 1080 LCD for critical focus anyway -
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
It was discussed a while back... And unless something has changed, the HDMI out is 720p only -- for now. I think this has to do with the EVF and LCD interfaces. My guess is that since they're DVI/HDMI based, that the HDMI output as well as the EVF / LCD connections are all operating off the same HDMI chipset.

1080p / 2K is available via the dual-link SDI output. I would think an SDI to DVI converter combined with a Dell 30" display could be one killer set monitoring solution and still well under $2K. A 24" version of the same would come in right about $1K if you were to bargain shop a bit.
Click to expand...

How much is an SDI to DVI converter? It can do 2K out of the RED?
 
specs_top20060807.jpg

30-inch Apple Cinema HD Display
Tech Specs>>Link
http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html
30 inches (29.7 inches viewable)
2560 x 1600 pixels (optimum resolution)
2048 x 1280
1920 x 1200
1280 x 800
1024 x 640
Pixel pitch: 0.250 mm
An Apple Cinema Display viewing angle (typical) 178° horizontal; 178° vertical.

Price: US$1,799.00
+
Blackmagic HDLink Pro (US$795) 2K via SDI (2048 x 1556p23.98 and 2048 x 1556p24).
3 Gb/s 4:4:4 high definition and 2K film.
------------
Total: US$2594

2K on set monitoring for US$2594. NOT BAD.

"HDLink Utility allows you to upload gamma lookup tables in simple tab-separated text format, which can then be loaded into HDLink via USB. Settings and look up tables stay saved in non volatile memory, so every time you power cycle your HDLink the settings stay the same. Factory defaults can easily be restored and gamma tables copied and saved as files. Although HDLink comes color calibrated, lift, gain and gamma adjustments are provided to allow color matching of LCD panels. Lookup tables for Panasonic™ cine-gamma are also provided which are perfect for on-location film shoots."

lookup-table-full.jpg
 
offhollywood said:
my understanding is that it is 1080 ONLY, no 2K - Stuart, can you confirm?
Click to expand...

I'd like confirmation as well. But it seems to me that a dual-link HD-SDI should provide for 2K. But it does seem logical that it could only be 1080p.
 
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