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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Leica R lenses on RED

imageray said:
i think these lenses are rehoused. The focus mark look different than the R lenses i have shot on, far more film style in size.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree with you that they are rehoused (shelled). So that they have a common front diameter and from what I can tell also a common gear ring diameter.

Went to the Leica site and I see that their lenses rotate in the proper (cine) direction like the Zeiss (most anyways) lenses do for the Contax cameras. So this leads me to believe that the Dalsa lenses are just new shells. But I could be wrong. lol
Nice selection of optics though.

http://www.leica-camera.us/photography/r_system/lenses/506.html
 
I dont understand ...................

I dont understand ...................

Ok, here is the deal im reading all these posts about red and dalsa and it seems that lot of members in here dont like dalsa. Personally i had a chance to work on a show and preped the dalsa camera. Let me tell you what a great facility it is a joy to prep there. Knowledgable people and very professional. I also do like the red camera i think it is ground breaking product. im going to dalsa again and im going to post some picture of their facility for everyone to see.I acttually got to play with these lenses they have and man o man they are buttery smooth no breathing at all sharp and true T stop values also marked. one other important aspect is all there lenses get serviced and certified by a well know lens maker.Cant wait to see red in action.:cold: :innocent:
 
Leica rocks.
Could be nice to see it on RED and with RED together in the future.
 
Dalsa has done a lot of groundbreaking stuff for digital imaging. Most of there products end up costing buku bucks, origin, digital hasselblad, the 6x17 digital 160mpxl deal.

I wonder if they are a chip manufacturer at heard, and the rest of the equipment isnt really there concern, which is why it ends up being expensive and sometimes difficult to work with (so i hear, i havent had the chance to work with any of those uber-cool products).
 
I very much so respect Dalsa for their commitment to image quality, but RED is not only on par with Dalsa, most importantly, it's making things happen, big things.

How's 5 feature film deals? That proves RED's quality.

I expect RED's lens quality to be top notch as well.
 
My idea was if you want the best glass right now you should buy it somewhere (if it's available). To develop a top-notch glass takes decades. But you need it now because of the camera launch etc...
By the way Leica was in troubles, needed cash flow(2-3 years ago), that how the two rich Austrian stock brokers did buy out of Leica stocks. But I am not sure if these guys are a right one for the Leica's survival and future.
Technically and mechanically you could re-barrel and re-house the lenses, accommodate and offer them for the cinema acquisition, digital and analog. That is exactly what Dalsa did. But they would rent them only. Maybe one or two sets. That's OK, but the better is to allow wider user audience to get it for a good price. It was just an idea.

KubrickForLook.jpg

Self-Portrait of Kubrick with a Leica III camera, when he worked for Look.
 
A ray of clearity...

A ray of clearity...

Hello and greetings to fellow explorers and pioneers!

Thanks very much for any responces. I stumbled onto this site recently and am so grateful for the generous exchange of knowledge amongst proffessionals and novices alike in the spirit of Science and Art.

I have a bunch of Leica lenses laying around an inheritance of sorts and I would like to know if its a doable proposition to somehow use them with RED or to ditch them and go for something more accessible in terms of mounts etc.

Leica R-Elmarit 60/2.8 Macro
Leica R-Elmarit 24/2.8
Leica R-Elmarit 28/2.8
Leica R- Summicron 35/2.0
Leica R- Summicron 50/2.0
Leica R- Elmarit 90/2.8
Leica R- Elmarit 180/2.8

What are they good for? (Functionaly in relation to RED).
What would you do with them if you were in my position?
Sell-Toss-Shelve-Arrange costume mounts-Rehouse-Which Options make sence if any of the above?

If these (Leicas)are a viable solution at all how do they stand up to the:

Nikon 17-35mm f2.8 AF-S
Nikkor 28mm f1.4 AFD
Nikkor 85mm f1.4 AIS/AF-D

Which route to build on? The Plus / minus and hassle factor taken into account when considering the assembly of a nice solid series to start with?

Once again,

Thanks!
 
I have a Leica R mount lens, a Summicron-R (50mm/2) which I've used on my Canon 20D (with EOS adaptor ring). The lens is well crafted and the focus action is wonderfully smooth. However, in my opinion, the pictures I have taken with it are really no different than those using the Canon 50/1.4.

edit: actually there is a compositional difference in the photos. Because it's fully manual lens, I tend to use it in a different way. But I guess I don't see much technical difference optically.
 
Hi,

You could use the Leica R with the Birger Canon mount and Leica to EOS adapters. Probably the most affordable way to use them. Rehousing them would be fairly pointless in my opinion. You could buy faster cine primes for similar amounts and rest assured they will deliver optically.

The lenses will only be able to be used manually of course so you will have problems with focusing; short & reverse focus throw, slightly stiffer than cine lenses. That being said they could be put to use for low budget/personal projects. I'd be happy to use basically any lens if I'm shooting for fun. If there is a lot riding on delivering the shot, however, I probably wouldn't want too.

Paul
 
We still have to see when is shipping Birger EOS to RED mount. Then to use Leica R to EOS adapter (Zoerk) and test it.
 
Hello, jbeale, Paul, and Third Man and all others who read this.

Prompt and concise answers indeed and you have saved me (And I am sure many others out there with similar hazey understanding-misunderstandings surrounding just these concerns) from many a headache...

It makes total sence to have something for fun-hobby-macro budget to always have around to shoot-learn-experiment with...Having an audience of more than one ( Yourself vs A paying decerning one ) however, is entirely another matter, that deserves a safe and qualified proven delivery standard when making that determining choice that so crucially effects what results are seen and experienced in relation to RED...

I suspected that but wasn`t 100% sure, so thanks for putting those concerns to rest once and for all...Now I know where the lenses belong and their proper range and realm of use in the wider context of things!!!

Thank you very much for your time and thoughts they are very much appreciated ...

Would the nikon-nikkor options listed above fall into the same catagory so to speak as these particular Leicas or are they somehow on another level?

Somewhere between enabling operative exploration for personal growth or on the other hand, Belonging to an arrsonal of Glass designed to satisfy the higher demands of a proffessional paying costumer who expect results on par with competitive industry standards?

Where and to what degree between those two catagories do the Nikon - Nikkors appropriately land?

Cheers!

DogDay.
 
dogday said:
Hello, jbeale, Paul, and Third Man and all others who read this.

Prompt and concise answers indeed and you have saved me (And I am sure many others out there with similar hazey understanding-misunderstandings surrounding just these concerns) from many a headache...

It makes total sence to have something for fun-hobby-macro budget to always have around to shoot-learn-experiment with...Having an audience of more than one ( Yourself vs A paying decerning one ) however, is entirely another matter, that deserves a safe and qualified proven delivery standard when making that determining choice that so crucially effects what results are seen and experienced in relation to RED...

I suspected that but wasn`t 100% sure, so thanks for putting those concerns to rest once and for all...Now I know where the lenses belong and their proper range and realm of use in the wider context of things!!!

Thank you very much for your time and thoughts they are very much appreciated ...

Would the nikon-nikkor options listed above fall into the same catagory so to speak as these particular Leicas or are they somehow on another level?

Somewhere between enabling operative exploration for personal growth or on the other hand, Belonging to an arrsonal of Glass designed to satisfy the higher demands of a proffessional paying costumer who expect results on par with competitive industry standards?

Where and to what degree between those two catagories do the Nikon - Nikkors appropriately land?

Cheers!

DogDay.
Click to expand...

Hi,

You can never have too many options so having those Leica lenses is by no means a bad thing. For instance you could shoot stock footage of scenery and the like quite easily. Anything that you focus by eye should give good results.

The Nikkors are slightly different in that the intended Birger Nikon mount will access the Auto Focus controls of the AF/S lenses. By connecting to this it removes some of the problems inherent in still lenses and should (We hope) allow a more cine lens + follow focus like experience to be had. Negating expensive modifications to the lenses.

Using still lenses in any form or fashion will still be frowned upon by a good many given that they have not been designed with the intended use of working in a cine environment. Cine lenses cost a lot of money because they are precision optics and made specifically for this industry.

Fingers crossed though, we'll be able to use some still lenses and get "close to" results. If a DP or producer can be shown that the use and results of them are up to scratch I'm sure we'll see a few people happy to adopt them.

Bottom line if you want to be using your Red exclusively for the high end cinematography then PL mount cine lenses is the way to go. I'll personally be using either a 2nd hand zoom, Red zoom's or still lenses and suggesting to any clients with larger budgets to rent Cooke or Zeiss cine lenses.

Paul
 
Hello All...

Are there any known cases of actual Feature Length Motion Pictures where Leica R lenses were used throughout?

Which ones and in what condition...As-is Still Camera with intermediary mounts or Re-housed etc for proper Cine use?

That would be sort of the proof of the pudding to have several references to watch and judge capabilities in action.

BTW has that been done to anyones knowledge a kind of database catalogue of lenses used for specific Scenes from Films to sort of bridge the gap in communications and decision making. Sort of like having a common palette to have as a referential compass so that people from different backgrounds and levels of experience and know how when brought together for whatever circumstances could easily establish a short hand language between them.

That would be fun a list of lense brands and their repective focal lengths etc and other characteristic properties and then a list of Films beside them demonstrating the effects attained by them thus allowing for quick comparison.

Cheers Guys!!!

DogDay.
 
The Third Man said:
they would be even better then competitive Arri/Zeiss, Cooke or Angenieux lenses
Click to expand...

I question whether this would actually be true. After all, Leica R and M lenses are optimized for a much larger format size than Arri/Zeiss, Cooke, or Angenieux. Also, Leica publishes performance data for all their lenses, and although they appear to have some good designs, I am aware of significantly better ones, particularly at the larger apertures. Also, none of the Leica R or M series are corrected for breathing, which seems to me to be a serious shortcoming.

I do wish that Arri/Cooke/Angenieux would publish performance data for their cine lenses, so that a truly realistic comparison could be made.
 
Hi Brickwall.

If you have any links where that Leica data (or any other for that matter you think would be relevent to this thread) is published can you please post them here for us to check out?

Thanks,

DogDay.
 
dogday said:
Hi Brickwall.

If you have any links where that Leica data (or any other for that matter you think would be relevent to this thread) is published can you please post them here for us to check out?

Thanks,

DogDay.
Click to expand...

Leica publish .pdf format files online that provide MTF at several apertures, distortion, and illumination falloff for all of their current M and R lenses. R series: http://www.leica-camera.us/photography/r_system/lenses/

M series: http://www.leica-camera.us/photography/m_system/lenses/

Zeiss publish nearly identical data for most of their photograhpic lenses, but not for any of their cine lenses: http://www.zeiss.com/photo . Nikon, Canon, Sigma, and Olympus also publish similar data, although in the case of Nikon and Canon the MTF curves are apparently calculated ignoring the effects of diffraction, so they are not as reliable:

http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/lineup.htm
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=111
http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/lens/dea/products/lens/index.asp
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all.asp
 
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