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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

A very basic question: Actual DNR of R1?

Roberto Lequeux

Roberto Lequeux

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I have an other real basic question that I just never got around to asking and somehow I thought this was the right place to post it.

I am trying to figure out what the actual usable stops will be for Scarlet, the 2/3 Scarlet for now though I am very interested in the S35 Scarlet and aware of the FF35 and it's additional DNR... I really need to understand how it all works so I have many questions in my head about this whole thing:

1. Will I actually end up with 11 stops available in post?

2. Will I have to crush a few stops at the bottom end to avoid some noise?

3. What about the FF35 with 13 stops? And what will be the effect of downscaling the 6k to 2k?

Better ask now!
 
Roberto, your question does remind me that R1 was initially touted as having 11 stops, but there were many of those whose tests revealed 9.5 at most. I hope that this time around, when the guys say 11(or 13) stops, they're usable stops through and through.
 
Yea, well 9.5 stops would make me have to change my pants anyway :)

I bet it will be the same, possibly a bit more but less than advertised... maybe we get the same percentage of the advertised value which would mean we would get 11 stops with Monstro! What's film supposed to be? Is it something like 14 stops?

Anywho, thanks for bringing up the number! 9.5 at best... now I hope someone can explain how it all works.
 
If you look back through the long history of posts on this subject, it's always been a problem of measured dynamic range on a test chart using "what is the last dark wedge on a wedge chart that looks like a different brightness to it's neighbour" definition, and what users personally think a reasonable usable range is. The measured definition is 11.3, but you would practically go with a lower figure. As for how the new cameras will be practically, and how they'll measure, we'll just have to wait and see... :-)

Not least to remember that measuring dynamic range is a tricky test at best, and to measure >10 stops you have to be very careful with your environment, lighting, flare and anything that could stop you getting full darkness in the shadows.

Graeme
 
The wizard himself! Oh, holy G... I thank you for your presence... how's life treating you? Who's the new kids? 42, 225 and the fat assed 500... :)

Real quick, what is current S35 stocks' DNR?

And how much more will we get out of compressing the 5k S35 windowed out of the FF35 from Scarlet down to 2k?
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Not least to remember that measuring dynamic range is a tricky test at best, and to measure >10 stops you have to be very careful with your environment, lighting, flare and anything that could stop you getting full darkness in the shadows.

Graeme
Click to expand...

Hi Graeme,

That would imply that David Stump's method which has been used by many for years is not as flawed as many people stated some 2 1/2 years ago.

Stephen
 
Hard to tell how the new cameras will behave. Anything I'd say now would be guess, hence my wait and see comment.

Graeme
 
You're just trading one set of problems for another. It's easy enough to make a backlit test chart really dark where it's meant to be, you just have to know to do that, turn off the room lights and be careful.

Measuring DR by stopping down the lens and using NDs is complicated by the extended nature of the test, the accuracy of the lens markings, the accuracy to which you set the lens to it's markings and human error. Ideally, all tests of DR should match, but that doesn't happen.

Interestingly, in the monitoring world side of things, dynamic DR is often used to "boost" the contrast ratio they quote. But their static DR, as you'd get in a single displayed image, is not as high.

Errors in shooting a DR test generally mean you get a lower than true figure. The only way I know to get a better than reality figure is to use the wrong test chart and plug in the numbers from the wider range one and get wowed a the results. I've done that once :-) But then I noticed I'd mucked it up. Shooting a single image also means you can quickly plot a graph in, say ImageJ and quickly see what is going on in too.

Graeme
 
I just do my little bit of the project.... There are lots of brains at RED.

Graeme
 
Interestingly, in the monitoring world side of things, dynamic DR is often used to "boost" the contrast ratio they quote. But their static DR, as you'd get in a single displayed image, is not as high.
Click to expand...
On the consumer side, usually the quoted figures have little to do with reality... even the static figures.

And then the other problem is that the contrast ratio figures don't always tell the whole story. Some display technologies have very good figures but their blacks might have artifacts in them... e.g. plasma has noisy blacks, modulated LED has weird aliasing halos, etc.

Anyways I am digressing here...

There are lots of brains at RED.
Click to expand...
There will be. Red hasn't made the Scarlet/Epic brains yet. ;)
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Not least to remember that measuring dynamic range is a tricky test at best, and to measure >10 stops you have to be very careful with your environment, lighting, flare and anything that could stop you getting full darkness in the shadows.
Click to expand...

Since Red has their own sensor, they should be able to provide these figures reliably. If you pick up a sensor data sheet, they typically come with these numbers.
 
Indeed, they do come with numbers. But that is the sensor, not the imaging system you're measuring there... Hence the need for practical measurements using the sensor as it's intended to be used.

Graeme
 
Glenn,that is hilarious. There is so much brains at Red that they are going to start selling off some of it. Graeme's brain is literally left on the working table and shipped directly to us.

Graeme, do you suppose the additional measured and practical DR will be relative. Meaning an additional 10% both measured and practical?
 
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