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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Canon HV20

AppliedVisual said:
...I'm just a bit puzzled as to why people are trying to circumvent crappy HDV when the video is coming from a crappy palm-corder to begin with and the HDV compression is probably one of the least important factors effecting image quality in this setup...
Click to expand...

But with this "crappy HDV" but must read>>How Clint Eastwood incorporated digital elements into Letters from Iwo Jima and Flags of Our Fathers.>>

"...His team came up with something Eastwood calls “trashcan shots.” Basically, they settled on HDV cameras as the only viable option to meet his requirements. They sealed and stabilized a series of Sony HVR-Z1U HDV cameras inside prop 50-caliber machine-gun ammunition cases, operated them with out-of-the-box remote controls that come with those cameras, and gave the machine-gun cases to several extras acting in particular battle scenes. They captured wild footage that editor Joel Cox eventually mixed into certain sequences.

“We cut the front out [of the ammunition boxes], put these digital cameras in there [inside soft, waterproof housings and wrapped in bubble-wrap and foam], shooting 25fps, and I gave them to some extras,” Eastwood says. “I just told them to carry the boxes, and not to pay any attention to them. If an explosion went off, they could drop them. I even had them make them waterproof, so they could just drop them in the water. But I didn't tell the extras why we wanted them to carry the boxes. I didn't want them to start thinking about it, because that would ruin what we were trying to capture. We eventually filmed out those shots, and they came out real nice.”...
...

“We are interested in [Panasonic's] HVX200 with the P2 cards and the FireStore [recording] system, but it wasn't available when we were shooting Flags,” she says. “We could get those cameras by the time we got into Letters, but even with 8GB P2 cards, the run time was not sufficient for the way Clint was shooting, and the FireStore was not yet available. So we stayed with the Sony cameras for both movies. HDV is obviously not comparable to 35mm film and anamorphic lenses, but with the process we used, followed by the digital intermediate, the footage mixed great with the rest of the movie.”

"Letters From Iwo Jima" and "Flags of Our Fathers" on Academy Award/Oscar's Nominee List

Best Picture: "Babel," "The Departed," "Letters From Iwo Jima", "Little Miss Sunshine," "The Queen."

Directing: Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu, "Babel"; Martin Scorsese, "The Departed"; Clint Eastwood, "Letters From Iwo Jima"; Stephen Frears, "The Queen"; Paul Greengrass, "United 93."

Original Screenplay: Guillermo Arriaga, "Babel"; Iris Yamashita and Paul Haggis, "Letters From Iwo Jima"; Michael Arndt, "Little Miss Sunshine"; Guillermo del Toro, "Pan's Labyrinth"; Peter Morgan, "The Queen."

Sound Editing: "Apocalypto," "Blood Diamond," "Flags of Our Fathers," "Letters From Iwo Jima," "Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest."
 
Yes indeed and agreed. The capture stream is only the tool as someone already said.

Of course, there are minimum requirements and different layers. But that's there where it ends. We all need to understand there are some other variants so and much more relevant than this or that limitation. To deal with limitations is the first condition for any aspirant filmmaker. Digital moviemaker as well. No matters where -- they'll always be there. Differently or not. But there.
 
The more I spend, the more I demand. No doubt.
 
But I could say...
The more it's affordable, the more I save.
 
Thirdly, I still could...
The more I save, the more I have.
The more I have, the more I can.
 
Don King said:
Nice reading!

"I would like to find a Prosumer cam that could be taken into the streets (of Paris, Rome, New York, etc,) and not be as noticeable as pro cameras are. I want something I can put in a jacket pocket and pull out when needed."

Applied Visual, do you see what we're talking about?
Click to expand...

That makes absolute perfect sense and that's why I bought my HC3... Now how does that work out with using the HDMI interface for live capture to circumvent potential HDV artifacting? ...Or do you also plan to keep this little camcorder tethered via an HDMI cable to a portable computer in a backpack? It's the live HDMI capture to try and avoid HDV artifacting that I find qutestionable, not the compact camcorder itself. Considering price and features, if it has equivalent (or better) video quality to my Sony HC3 and since it does true 24p, I'll probably buy one to replace my HC3...

I would just add. This is not a prosumer but can get some prosumer or even pro results. If adding the necessary pro tools. A camera is just a tool. Getting the necessary definition, our money should have other priorities. A camera is just an item. The problem is to get the right items.
Click to expand...

I agree with that too... I just find the whole HDMI live capture theory for this camcorder to be questionable. If the HV10 and other current HDV camcorders in this size range are anything to judge by, then (even if the HDMI output doesn't exhibit HDV macroblocking/artifacting from a live feed), the results will still be inferior to HDV comrpessed feeds from a larger camera with better optics and image processing. That larger camera will still be more compact and easier to manage in a portable situation than a tethered HV20. And for those who's money priorities may call for concern, the larger camera like the V1 will be about the same price when considering the necessary gear to grab live HDMI from the HV20.

...This is all I was saying, sometimes I wonder if people actually read what I post.

I'm in no way questioning the validity or use of HDV cameras or compact camcorders / palmcorders, etc.. I'm questioning the logic of trying to circumvent HDV compression on a camcorder like the HV20 or even on larger units like the FX1/V1, via HDMI live capture. When more elegant, portable and proven solutions already exist... Often for the same or less money, which can be a concern and even on large studio budgets.

It's like somewhere in the last 12 replies the whole topic of discussion changed and now I'm being lectured on the importance of HDV camcorders when that isn't what I was even talking about. :confused:
 
SEE what happens when RED doesn't give us any NEWS?
My God, we're talking about Canon? Next thing I bet we will be looking forward to Sony's new Camera! RED give us some news, please... silence these non Red discussions!
 
yeah?..

take a look on this lower rez.. canon's A1..

1169977556.jpg

1169975923.jpg


http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=85659
 
Hmmm....

It looks like it produces a bit more detail than my HC3, pretty similar though. It does seem like it may have less noise, but I can't say for sure from these few samples. The HV20 does look to have some more edge enhancement than the Sony cams, but once again hard to tell for sure from these limited samples.

...not impressed with the 24fps sample. :( The color looks to be very good for such a little camera though. :)
 
And here is the full review:

«Today's Canon seminar at Birns and Sawyer featured the venerable XLH1 and A1 front and center, but a little honey of a newcomer quietly stole the show from off in the wings--one of the two rumored working HV20's in the U.S. Sadly, the breakout cable for component out was nowhere to be found so we didn't get to see the image on the 30" plasma that displayed the A1's excellent picture instead, but having an opportunity to handle the HV20 was worth the price of admission.

My first thought is that it is amazingly light. I think the horizontal form factor might lead one to think that it will have a tad more heft from its appearance, but it feels like a feather, and the right hand wraps comfortably around the body lending a nearly covert appearance to the meld of man and machine. It's light enough that the left hand is a bit confused what to do exactly--you can steady the camera by placing a few fingers on the LCD screen, but the camera is not big enough to require a lift from below. I think it would take a bit more experimentation to figure out the optimal hand position.

I'm not an immediate fan of the zoom rocker, unfortunately. It has been downsized to the same scale as the camera which makes it rather touchy to operate--the throw from one side to the other is minute. I'm sure with practice this would improve but it's not what I would call an intuitive interface. There is a set of zoom controls just under the screen which can be easily operated by the left hand, but this is a fixed speed zoom compared to the variable offered on the body.

Likewise, the teeny focus roller on the left side is not all that easy to use; a long rack (from close focus to background) would require so many go-rounds because of the short rotation of the control that it's all but impractical. However the autofocus is quite snappy and probably the way to work with this camera under most handheld circumstances.

Bear in mind that these are first impressions; it's entirely possible that I might have become adept at both of these mechanisms had I been able to spend more time playing with them.

I walked around a little bit and it seems like with about 15 minutes of practice, most shooters could get comfy enough with the feel to deliver good looking handheld footage. Between the optical stabilization and the light body, using an elbows-tucked in approach should deliver solid images without the fatigue typical of the larger handheld but non-shoulder mounted cameras like its big brothers, the HVX etc.

At a certain point I realized that I had forgotten that this camera delivers 1080 HD images, which was a bit stunning. If only we could have watched some of this played back (but of course the picture will be the same as the HV10), this may have hit home further.

I didn't have too much time to play around with the various shooting modes; those familiar with Canon's menus will adjust pretty quickly as the familiar icons pop up on the screen.

I think this camera will really kick ass in its class, and it's an astonishing feature set for the money. Looking forward to getting one!»

~ Charles Papert, SOC

LINK

Thanks for the much appreciated info!

E. :)
 
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