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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red One Pipeline Diagram v1.0

As Stuart said, two HD-SDI ports will have monitoring outputs on top of EVF and LCD port.

As to the EVF and LCD why not to pick HDMI it supports 1080p60 RGB and all other 720p and 30 24 and other frame format.
It is very popular not expensive and very easy to get monitor for it.
If you have any high end remote monitor than most likely it will have HD-SDI interface on it.

Stuart, it is a good idea to have an option for 1080p60 just in case. Though the standard EVF and LCD could be 720p to start with.

Andrew
 
Nick, sorry to paraphrase your comments -

1. Only the LCD and EVF display full camera GUI including surround view and audio levels and frame markers and other graphics. If you want exactly this on-set then you could remote the LCD output. Another approach could be - read camera stutus over usb/wi-fi, ingest the HDMI output into a Black Magic card and build your own P.C video village.

2. HDMI/HDSDI monitoring outputs are fixed at 720p. This is because 720p is the only single link HDSDI video format that allows us to show every frame rate up through 60fps (or 120fps).

3. You can also use the Dual-Link HD-SDI output for 1080p monitoring. For 4:2:2 color space, only one link of the Dual-Link is necessary. (The 1080p/60 format is supported under SMPTE dual link specs .....)

4. The HDMI and HD-SDI monitoring outputs support 50p / 60p. (Recheck your Panasonic / JVC LCD - the Panny W models all have 50/60)

5. What then do these monitor outputs display when the camera is running at 'non-standard' frame rates? If shooting at 25fps, do these monitor outputs use a form of pulldown to pad the frames up to 50p - Yes. If shooting at 24 fps will they pad the frames up to 60 fps - Yes. If shooting at 120fps, do these monitor outputs simply display every other frame at 60p - Yes.

Hope that this helps.
 
Thanks for your detailed reply Stuart. All good news!

Glad to hear 720p50 is supported (though sadly my monitor is an older CRT not LCD model, and definitely does not do 720p50.)

But importantly I did not realise that the Dual-Link outputs could be run in Single-Link mode as well, so would be fine for feeding a monitor or down-converter. 4k@25 could be fed to the HD-SDI as 4:2:2 Single-Link 1080@25psf, which would be fine for both my monitor and the AJA converter.

Thanks again

Nick
 
jdcineaste said:
Whatever happened to the FireWire 800/400 interface that's listed on the red.com site?
Click to expand...

The FireWire 800/400 interface is listed under the section on the Digital Medai Magazine. It will probably be one option for connecting a RED-DRIVE to a computer for downloading media. It is NOT used as a video interface like on DV cameras.

Nick
 
Nick is correct
 
No 1080p over HDMI? Would have been really nice for low-cost on-set monitoring. Oh, well. If the focus assist is good enough it's not a huge deal.
 
Nick Shaw said:
The HDMI/HDSI monitoring outputs cannot be switched into any mode but 720p. Is this because HDMI only supports 1080i not 1080p,
Click to expand...


I believe 1080p is included in the HDMI specifications, in other words HDMI will carry 1080p.

It may be too late to make the RED One spec, but with the proliferation of 1080p HDTV sets, which are HDMI, and usually dual HDMI bus equipped, it would be real useful if the RED One HDMI taps were menu-switchable between 720p and 1080p. This would allow RED One owners/users to view RED One footage via HDMI in 1080p on their 1080p HDTV sets - an added convenience especially when on the road and away from an edit bay monitor. If the frame rate was so high that 720p had to be used, then users would have to use that, but if they had shot 60fps or lower they would have the menu option to view the footage at 1080p resolution.

Those RED One users who only maintain field acquisition equipment, and whose freelance editors have the bays they edit on, would have a 1080p way to view their footage at home - on their HDMI equipped 1080p HDTV.
 
Hdmi

Hdmi

Its 720p for now guys.

In the spirit of never say never, we'll keep consideration of 1080p open.....

1080p is available from the HD-SDI (dual link) output
 
Stuart English said:
1080p is available from the HD-SDI (dual link) output
Click to expand...
What monitors can do Dual Link HD/SDI ? The only one I can think of off hand is cinetal. Anybody know of any others ? (for the field production).

I'd really like to view 1080p for numerous reasons.


:beer:
 
Stuart said earlier that the Dual-Link HD-SDI outputs can be run in Single-Link mode at 4:2:2. Anybody know if that can do 1080p60? It can certainly do 1080i60 and 1080psf24, which would give you the resolution you want. 1080i60 would show the motion characteristics of 60fps shooting, if that is available. Is it? Stuart? I know it was discussed before, but I can't find a definitive answer. Or is progressive to interlaced conversion only available in REDCINE?

Nick
 
Stuart English said:
Its 720p for now guys.

In the spirit of never say never, we'll keep consideration of 1080p open.....

1080p is available from the HD-SDI (dual link) output
Click to expand...


OK... I'm curious. Why cripple the HDMI output to 720p?

And Yes, Gibby, you're right - HDMI does support 1080p. @ 24, 30, 50 and 60 Hz. And that's with 10bit color. To go beyond 10bit / 4:2:2, you need to move back over to DVI or go to HDMI v1.3.
 
Nick Shaw said:
Stuart said earlier that the Dual-Link HD-SDI outputs can be run in Single-Link mode at 4:2:2. Anybody know if that can do 1080p60? It can certainly do 1080i60 and 1080psf24, which would give you the resolution you want.

Nick
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the 4:4:4 be better than the 4:2:2 for monitoring/previewing footage processed through LUT's on set ?

Achhh, looking round a bit I couldn't find any other monitors that had Dual link HD/SDI. I know one of the cinetals goes for about $8K. Possbily, one of the BVM monitors has a dual link board, but at 88 pounds ; I wouldn't want to lug that sonofabitch around.

If we did run the monitoring out of the Dual link to a single HD/SDI input what would we need ? Extra attatchment ? , change in camera monitor menu setting ?

I guess I could save a bit of readies with a 720p monitor on set, but will probably spring for the 1080p single link mode .

:beer:
 
I don't think you would really see the difference between 4:4:4 monitoring and 4:2:2. The reason 4:2:2 works is because of the lower chroma resolution than luma of the human eye. 4:4:4 only really comes into its own during post, for improved grading and keys. That's what I've always been lead to believe, anyway.

I would assume changing the Dual-Link to Single-Link mode is just a menu setting.

Nick
 
Stuart English said:
Its 720p for now guys.

In the spirit of never say never, we'll keep consideration of 1080p open.....

1080p is available from the HD-SDI (dual link) output
Click to expand...
Stuart, not having 1080p via HDMI is real pain.
I know 720p will go up to 120 fps but is it so difficult to restrict 1080p to 60 frame where 720p will be left at full 120 fps?

Monitoring via HDSDI is very expensive, but the most important factor there is that these monitors are also very heavy. HDMI monitors are very light and technologically more advanced.

Can you at minimum do support 1080p for HDMI in the firmware now and do LCD/EVF as a daughter board that could be exchanged in the future with the new one supporting 1080p?

Andrew
 
HD Preview and Monitors

HD Preview and Monitors

I'll post here what I posted in a different thread.

I'll also challenge the statment made that HDMI based monitors are "more advanced" than HD-SDI based ones. Lighter and cheaper yes, because they are made for consumer TV use and don't have such rugged chassis, input choices, advanced control systems or accurate color as professional video monitors.

The phrase "Dual-link HD-SDI" can mean one or both of two things - RED can support both.

a) Use of two links to provide 4:4:4 RGB monitoring at 1080p or -
b) Two duplicate outputs of 4:2:2 YUV (Y,Cr,Cb) at 720p or 1080i or 1080p.

To see 1080p you don't need a dual link capable monitor, any HD monitor with an HD-SDI input is fine. JVC has a 1080P HD-SDI + DVI LCD for ~$4K

The HD preview output (HD-SDI and HDMI, its the same signal) provides a Surround View + active record area + select graphics + audio. Its designed to allow a quick check of framing and composition for the director and other on-set - think video assist for a film camera. We chose to include HDMI as an output in addition to HD-SDI as it lets you plug in a wide range of inexpensive computer monitors or 12" - 32" size consumer LCD and plasma TVs.

If anyone wants to research available portable / battery powered, HDMI based multiframe rate 1080p monitors that can accept 23.98, 24.00, 25.00, 29.97 and 30.00 1080p signals it would be a valuable addition to all of our knowledge bases.

What we have seen in HD-SDI and HDMI products have all been XGA or SXGA resolution, so its pointless to send them 1080p and also limit the frame rate we can display to 30fps - which is why we chose 720p instead.
__________________
Workflow Wizard
 
Would all interested parties post choices of monitors, capture cards, transcoders, etc that I haven't already included? My little map of related devices is pretty slim at the moment. I'll add them in the next few days.

 
Michael, noticed small mistake on the diagram.
a) Use of two links to provide 4:4:4 RGB monitoring at 1080p or

You put 4:2:2 there.
Andrew
 
Stuart English said:
I'll post here what I posted in a different thread.

If anyone wants to research available portable / battery powered, HDMI based multiframe rate 1080p monitors that can accept 23.98, 24.00, 25.00, 29.97 and 30.00 1080p signals it would be a valuable addition to all of our knowledge bases.

__________________
Workflow Wizard
Click to expand...

Hi Stuart,

Well take a squint at this - it would seem to have everything we want - Time Code, frame markers, 2 SDI inputs, 23 kinds of HD signal and be battery powered! Blimey! Result!

http://www.astro-systems.com/DM-3011/dm_3011_page1.html

This one looks useful but is mains powered - still at 30W it would be possible to run a 240VAC convertor off a 12V car battery or auto cigar lighter.

http://www.astro-systems.com/DM-3016-A/dm_3016_page1.html

I'll have to e-mail them for prices. I'll let you know. They look expensive to me. But then I'm a cheapskate.

All the best, Phil
 
Field Monitors

Field Monitors

Thanks for that Tranquil Light.

Seems to be HD-SDI only and 1024 x 768 pixel resolution based on reading the spec sheets. Anyone get a different read? Even so, nice product and we can connect to our dual link HD-SDI outpuit at 1080p, although if it is 1024 x 758 the resolution of the display is lower than 720p (which I think you will find is true for almost all of these LCD based field monitors.
 
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