Redcine Cost?

[garydxd]

The price of the camera and lenses is amazing. What happens if the vital component (Redcine) software is $50,000? I hope this is not the case. Just curious. Hopefully it comes with the camera.

Red Team?

 

[CVB]

I thought Redcine was free. Am I mistaken?

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Comes with the camera. Everything is subject to change, but I believe this has been consistent.

Steve

 

[Don Woods]

No Jim said it came with the camera if.... You are a reservation holder. Meaning that after the reservations are done a filled. You might have to pay for it. But I think it is a good idea for it to come free with the camera. I would make it impossible to use the footage with out it. Then what is the point of the camera.

 

[Jannard]

Included with the camera... you will love it.

Jim

 

[betty schaefer]

when i rent the camera will i receive a temporal license or is that smth the rental houses will have to figure out?

 

[RobRoySyd]

when i rent the camera will i receive a temporal license or is that smth the rental houses will have to figure out?

A very good question!
You might rent the camera for a few days but you'll probably still need the software long after the camera is returned. Sure it's something the rental houses will have to figure out but I think a lot of REDs are being bought with the intent of them being rented out. and I'd guess the rental houses are as much in the dark as anyone.

Would seem logical to me for RED to offer the licences for free, adding another cost burden to rental or post houses will surely only serve to increase costs to owners / users and hence hinder the wider takeup of RED.

 

[MikeCurtis]

I'm figuring a service the rental houses can offer is conversion to a format of your choosing (or multiple formats if you wish).

Or you can buy your own license of it. Temporal license? Nobody else in the industry does it AFAIK - look at P2 stuff, etc. - if you rent a camera, you're expected to be able to deal with the footage has been the pattern I've seen.

-mike

 

[Don Woods]

If you rent you will just have to find a post facility that can process (Devlope) your footage.

 

[Scott Webster]

I'm figuring a service the rental houses can offer is conversion to a format of your choosing (or multiple formats if you wish).
-mike

I think that is a service our rental operation will have to offer. That way the client still has the freedom to post at home or take the files to the post house of their choice without locking them in to one provider.

It also allows you control over the 'magazines' in such that they are not off site in a post house que for conversion.

It is an easier sell to producers "What do I do with this 'Redcode stuff'?"
"Bring it to us and we'll deliver it on harddrive with the file format of your choice"

Certainly a Mac tower has to be cheaper than a Digi-HDCAM-HDSR vtr rack!

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think that is a service our rental operation will have to offer. That way the client still has the freedom to post at home or take the files to the post house of their choice without locking them in to one provider.

I do plan to offer my RED for rental on occasion, but it won't just be camera only in most cases, but I will go with the deal. In that case I will just bring along any systems/hardware/software necessary. If I decide to let someone take the camera and necessary gear (or for other rental houses that do that), I think REDCINE will have to go with it by way of renting a competent laptop or workstation out with the camera. For someone who regularly rents a RED camera, it would make sense for them to own their own REDCINE license so they can always deal with the original source video when and how they need.

I guess we'll all see how it plays out and what the licensing issues are. I'm figuring I'll want REDCINE on the new Mac Pro I plan to buy later this year (when my REDservation # comes up) and will also want it on my Macbook Pro and possibly a windows workstation as well. Soooo.... Just one more question to add onto the pile. While I'd love to have a low number in line, I'm kinda glad there will be a lot of RED owners before me.

 

[Alex Boothby]

Anyone who rents out their RED package, but does not offer their clients a REDCINE strategy, services, or at least a referral, is not doing themselves or RED any favors.

 

[Alex Boothby]

And I'm afraid that I'm going to have to bug Greame again (sorry) about including a 3-2 oulldown function in REDCINE to cine-expand 24p footage to 59.94. Maybe I will be a bastard and post a thread about this soon.

It's a great, great shame - but most editors I know prefer to receive their rushes at 59.94. Some of them don't even really know what 24p is, as they always receive their film footage converted through a telecine to 59.94, or through a dubbing house (for HDcam stuff) to 59.94. I see this as a potential roadblock to the fast and wide acceptance of RED in the film community.

 

[Alex Boothby]

Insurance

Insurance

I think that is a service our rental operation will have to offer. That way the client still has the freedom to post at home or take the files to the post house of their choice without locking them in to one provider.

It also allows you control over the 'magazines' in such that they are not off site in a post house que for conversion.

It is an easier sell to producers "What do I do with this 'Redcode stuff'?"
"Bring it to us and we'll deliver it on harddrive with the file format of your choice"

Certainly a Mac tower has to be cheaper than a Digi-HDCAM-HDSR vtr rack!

Does anyone know what the current status is with insurance companies being reluctant to insure pure data productions? I'm a bit confused if the rental house will have to purchase insurance for their physical gear AS WELL AS any REDCINE post services they will be doing.

What happens if a shot, or an entire drive is damaged after the shoot but prior to backup during the REDCINE one-light stage. Your digital negative is now lost. Would production insurance pick this up or would the rental house / REDCINE conversion vendor be liable? I know that film labs offer limited protection if you read the fine print of the contract.

 

[Thom Steinhoff]

Jim,

I know Redcine is a tremendous investment and will be an amazing program but as a firm believer in your revolution, I think you should figure out a way to have it available for free for anyone who needs it--at least the player / codec portion if you can succeed in creating a codec that plays directly in final cut or avid.

He who gives away the most software becomes the standard. Think flash, acrobat, Quicktime, etc.

If Redcine is available anywhere anyone needs it, and no one is ever delayed or hindered from working with Red footage because they have to secure a license or buy some software, then people won't be afraid of it and post houses, renters, etc. will embrace it.

If everyone else is charging big fees for their crap (in comparison) you will win. Maybe there is a way to segment the software into two versions--a runtime "lets edit 4K or convert to something we want" version and a pro version that has additional color/convert options as well as allows you to create proxies, complete your editing, then reconform with the full 4K.

Just an idea for the revolution. It doesn't affect me--as one of your loyal soldiers you have already said I'll get everything I need!

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I'm figuring a service the rental houses can offer is conversion to a format of your choosing (or multiple formats if you wish).

Or you can buy your own license of it. Temporal license? Nobody else in the industry does it AFAIK - look at P2 stuff, etc. - if you rent a camera, you're expected to be able to deal with the footage has been the pattern I've seen.

-mike

Wouldn't work. Because I don't intend to de-bayer all of my footage to 4k. Only the footage my EDL needs. So that means I would need to go back to the rental house months later. Plus you probably want to do a color pass inside of REDCine. When I think of rental houses, I don't think "colorist".

 

[M. Bergeron]

Something like SpeedGrade Onset is about 400$ and is, in my opinion, a necessary extra for the SI 2k camera. I guess even if Redcine is that much, it would still be interesting and would only be equivalent in price to an extra rental day. Renting software doesn't make that much sense in this situation.

I agree though that free REDcode codec or very cheap Redcine (50$) would make it more appealing in general. It would be similar to Apple's move with Final Cut Pro a few years ago. Make a great software and sell for cheap to help sell more computers and make people switch.

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

If RED is saying that camera owners get REDCINE free....
then we must assume that it will cost non-RED owners something?
RED should look at selling software packages to RED Renters....
Having the RED Owner (rental house) responsible to each each renter
for grading/conforming footage would not work....
Most rental houses I deal with have low paid I want to break into the business kinda guys who have trouble finding the manuals for the gear - don't ask them how to use it!
But I could see an opportunity for RED to sell a bunch of stand a lone software packages. The RED rental house could sell them at rental time for a discount ($1250) vs the off the shelf price of ? $1750?? (10% of RED body price?)
I have no idea what RED is thinking but the sooner they come out with a policy the better it will be for all.

 

[Nick Shaw]

Somebody who rents a Red does not need REDCINE to copy and back up their footage. They only need a laptop (and external drives) for that. They can check playback (albeit 'only' at 1080p) from the camera itself. REDCINE is only needed for post.

This is really just the same as the 'old' tape way of doing things. If you rent an HDCam, it is not the rental house's responsibility to ensure you have access to an HDCam deck to play the rushes back. You may well have to go to a dubbing house to get DV or Beta SP copies made for offlining, and to online you need to go to a facility that can handle the tape format you have shot.

The same applies to somebody who has rented a Red for a shoot, except that no matter how much they charge for a REDCINE license, I can't imagine it would cost as much as a deck. So if you can't afford to buy a Red, and are renting one for a project, but want to do your editing in house, you can buy REDCINE, add that to the budget, and you're still saving money.

Nick

 

[Stephen Williams]

The same applies to somebody who has rented a Red for a shoot, except that no matter how much they charge for a REDCINE license, Nick

Hi,

As Redcine will only work with footage shot with a Red camera, I don't see any justification for a Red shooter to have to pay anything.

Just my 2c

Stephen