Fanboys and Hecklers...

[jamieson42]

sincere critic?

sincere critic?

Hi Gunleik,

The owner of the site banned discussions until Red was available for anyone to test. I was unaware of the Red forum @DVX user until recently, thats why I am here.

I fall into Jim's "genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" categories I am very pleased to have been accepted by the people here.

Happy new year

Stephen

Stephen

is there such a thing? I feel a lot of DVX and cinematography forum users miss the input of Red in the forum, some have genuine professional curiosity, others professional or personal bias towards the Red project and Jim Jannard.

Either way a small group of users have learned to control their outbursts have made their way onto this forum.

I wonder what they have to gain by posting here and creating a "genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" facade?

 

[Roberto B]

OK. I'll behave.

you'll behave..

"genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" categories.. where are my categories? ok, i must admit.. ours?

 

[Roberto B]

you'll behave..

"genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" categories.. where are my categories? ok, i must admit.. ours?

who lived or lives in a cultural environment strongly committed with a totalitarian heritage.. knows what means when the power is just speaking to the inner circle.. it's not good for anybody..

edit
in our business (filmmaking) there is a master rule.. a major rule.. whatever.. it says, the movie is the first reason.. and sometimes should be the only reason..

 

[Deezie]

Feedback

Feedback

Stephen

is there such a thing? I feel a lot of DVX and cinematography forum users miss the input of Red in the forum, some have genuine professional curiosity, others professional or personal bias towards the Red project and Jim Jannard.

Either way a small group of users have learned to control their outbursts have made their way onto this forum.

I wonder what they have to gain by posting here and creating a "genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" facade?

I would submit that the "Red" team has much to gain from their prospective demographic of "intrigued and interested." If 30 people in a room all have the same opinion, then 29 of them are irrelevant. There's nothing to be learned from the unsubstantiated rants of naysayers anymore than there is from gleeful fanboys. However, a credible Devil's advocate is critical to any venture -- especially a new startup. While the Red team is comprised of gentleman who've acheived success in other areas, there is no guarantee that their skills in a new venture will translate to favorable results. While in advertising, I was heavily involved in the launch of new products and models from autos to alcoholic beverages to the latest electronics. I have seen brilliant men of high status and success go down in flames in many of their ventures. Some of it was timing, some was execution, other times it just wasn't meant to be. I've also seen competing products of lesser value step in after the mess, and having learned from their competition, take over the market.

So, yes, feedback is critical. Especially for a company that is releasing a product into an entirely different industry than its current expertise commands. One concern I have is that Red doesn't have the infrastructure in place to handle tech support on this particualr product. It's new to them and they're going to have to learn on the fly. If you're using Red on a project where money and time is critical, what's going to happen?

Personally, I'm hoping for the best and wish the Red team success with flying colors. This camera is a fabulous idea, and the price point would appear to allow for a comfortable market. Their camera makes sense for my business and could enhance my bottom line if it performs as expected. Right now, there are no Red Users -- so this forum has to rely on more than fanboys to understand all the relevant questions if they are to succeed.

For those with only rants and complaints, I would suggest you think of something worthy of discussion.

 

[Finner]

Stephen

I wonder what they have to gain by posting here and creating a "genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" facade?

What to gain as a sincere critic!!!! If any of the members on this site are not at least a little bit critical to learn what the "CONS" will be of this camera they are either low on experience or low on the education of really understanding motion picture cameras. The "CONS" of any product is very important information for anyone who wants to buy or use a product. I have used pretty much every current (last 30 years) film camera and a lot of the HD cameras out there. Each one has its advantages and disadvantages and if you think RED will not have some dissadvantages you are simply wrong. All this said I have a reservation for a RED and believe what I have seen to be the advantages of the camera to be huge. But just as important to use this camera to its utmost I need to know the limitatations of the camera. An intelligent well thought out critical question is the most useful thing on this site for me and makes a person think. Unlike the verbal diarrea of "Red is Red" "Red is the best and the savior of the world" or even a qoute that may come out of this post I am writing saying "Red will have no limitations.". Posts along this line are nothing short of a waste of time to have to trudge through to get to the intellegent postings that actually say something.

I am so glad Jim assembled this team and I feel the camera will be great and I look forward to learning the limitations along with all the great things the camera can achive. So I sure hope anyone who has a well thought out critique of the camera will feel comfortable to post it.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Stephen

is there such a thing? I feel a lot of DVX and cinematography forum users miss the input of Red in the forum, some have genuine professional curiosity, others professional or personal bias towards the Red project and Jim Jannard.

Either way a small group of users have learned to control their outbursts have made their way onto this forum.

I wonder what they have to gain by posting here and creating a "genuinely intrigued and interested" and also "sincere critic" facade?

There are two types of supporters:

1) "WOW AWESOME! MAKE LOVE TO ME!"
2) "You're two stops overexposed."

Guess which one cares about you.

- Gavin

 

[Gbabymogul]

Research. Be honest. Be a gentleman/woman.

I don't think it's harder than that. If you do the aforementioned, then let the chips fall where they may. Hopefully, the wide array of experience by reservation holders balances out the info.-enthusiasm ratio... I'll fully admit to my enthusiasm, but my film experience is key to balancing it pragmatically.

As someone who likes to research and preplan; critical evaluation and knowing the cons of a product are essential. And oft times, many of the nuances of the product (not readily searchable) will be brought to the fore by constructive questions.

RED should be a pretty big tent. Room enough for all - Except for anyone acting unprofessional.

[size=-2]
yes, the tent should be RED but you get the idea hehe.[/size]

 

[Hoffmann Films]

Change is a part of life and 2007 will be the start of something New...RED

 

[Digigenic]

I will admit when word first broke out on this project, I was a skeptic.

Now, that has changed.

Even though I have yet to commit to purchasing a RED1, I'm definitely committed to the movement, and all of its potential.

I'm looking forward to using one of these cameras in the near future.

 

[Jannard]

Here is the real scoop.

Fanboys motivate us the most. We will do everything in our power to NOT let them down. I will die trying to satisfy them.

Sincere critics give us food for thought. If the suggestions are valid and in our capability, they make the project better.

Disrespectful skeptics turn me off. Likely to make the "do not ever sell one to this guy" list. If they turn around quickly, we forgive quickly.

Hecklers absolutely make the "never sell this guy no matter what" list.

We have just added "we reserve the right to refuse service (or accept reservations) for any reason" to our program.

It is nice to be a private company.

Jim

 

[Jaime Vallés]

Hecklers absolutely make the "never sell this guy no matter what" list.

We have just added "we reserve the right to refuse service (or accept reservations) for any reason" to our program.

It is nice to be a private company.

Jim

Hecklers just got pwned!!!!!

 

[Owen]

Note to self: send flowers to Jim and team when placing order!

 

[Gbabymogul]

Here is the real scoop.

Fanboys motivate us the most. We will do everything in our power to NOT let them down.

That's a "for sure".

The speed with which you guys watched the feedback and implemented suggestions where applicable (and useful) was reflective of that. Now that you've moved into the testing stage; it's our turn to prepare ... flexibly of course ...

Funny thing is, and forgive me for getting corny, but I still feel as excited (if not more so) than the first time I picked up the phone to make the reservation. Crazy eh ?

As always - cautiously optimistic

I'll still call a curve ball when I see one, but so far you guys are pitching like champs.

 

[Roberto B]

Note to self: send flowers to Jim and team when placing order!

if it was yesterday, i'd vote it for "quote of the year".. now, after jim's private company quote, i'll say: where can i send the flowers, sir?

 

[robbo]

posted in worng thread <dopesmack>

 

[Mardi_Gras]

Ok, here's the scoop, fanboys and hecklers alike are humans. Anyone in between is... um... human too. We all have red flowing in our veins whether we choose to acknowledge it or not. Red is the reason we're all here.... or not. Ok, I'm digressing again. Well, I hope you get it.

Now that's it!

 

[jamieson42]

Forums will only work when positve exchanges take place. My issue was how long will this be able to go on when negative people from DVX and Cinematography post in a sanitized manner here. What they post here and what they post elsewhere under different names is a valid point

Sure every one has a different opinion, this is mine, and was directed at a few users

They know who they are, they have no business here

 

[Andrew Benz]

...from DVX and Cinematography post in a sanitized manner here. What they post here and what they post elsewhere under different names is a valid point

Spot on... this is my feeling as well. Some of those haters now have reservations. Before and shortly after IBC one would have thought that the anti-christ was here. AS a matter of fact one who said he would only shoot film.. now has a RED#.

But in the end--We (those that believe in the concept and the people first) are the "fanboys" who offer nothing... Yeah, I am referring to you captain focus group... give me a break. "Cool is fear dressed in Black"...

 

[Emanuel A.]

Spot on... this is my feeling as well. Some of those haters now have reservations. Before and shortly after IBC one would have thought that the anti-christ was here. AS a matter of fact one who said he would only shoot film.. now has a RED#.

But in the end--We (those that believe in the concept and the people first) are the "fanboys"

Fair words! You sum some thoughts...and some RED reservation holders/supporters feelings (same POV) too.

EDIT -- As I have already been supporting (or some other future REDusers, as well), RED is and will always be ours. And you guys sorry some rant (if it seems or feels in that way ) but RED is more ours than «the digital (cinema) camera project» of any one else...

 

[Krisp]

Forgive me for jumping in amongst established posters and share my view, but I would like to take a minute to thank not just Jim, The Red Team and the key figures who normally populate these threads, but also to all the members who kindly impart their knowledge and experience without condescention or arrogance. The skill and knowledge level of the people who contribute regularly to this (and the 'old' dvxuser) forums are invaluable for those of us out there who are here to read and learn. The irritation of wasting time reading irrelevant or abusive posts is always superceeded by the combination of excitement, irreverance, expertise and kindness present in most posts from around the world. So thank you all for sharing, as I guess sharing is the key here. Even Red couldn't have happened with just one man and an idea...