Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

As we get closer Mac Pro - peoples thoughts

I don't know if TB2 can be used to daisy chain computers; Or even if RAID disc systems are in development that have multiple (say 6) TB2 connectors - but I believe this is where the architecture needs to head if the new Mac Pro is to scale from a affordable starter solution (1xCPU 2xGPU compute node) to a powerful Master-Slaves (or server farm) system that utilises high speed shared storage.

The performance of software is massively effected by how it's written - optimising so that it goes twice as fast on one computer is like switching onto a process node two times smaller (eg jumping from the current 22nm down 10nm ... which might ship in 2017). The speed that FCPx opening of your list of projects is plain embarrassing. Apple could make go at least 100 times faster if they didn't lock up the system recalculate everything from scratch each time.


There are some real computationally intensive tasks - but for these ones, what we need is efficient use of CPU and GPUs working together. My understanding is that if you have a (hypothetical) colossal single machine running 1xOS with 4 x CPU and 8 x GPU - that it hits a number of bottlenecks - which prevents if performing at 4 x the performance if a 1 x CPU and 2 x GPU computer.


So ... if the software (or maybe even OS) was written to run on N machines (with one master) - we might be able to scale this software by simply buying another 'computer node'.


How this might effect my purchasing decision? If the new Mac Pros could be interconnected using TB2, and they could also share TB2 Storage - I would consider getting 2 x entry level 8 core Mac Pros rather than one Massively tricked out machine. And if Apple supported this in FCP-X / motion - Hell ... I'd buy 4 entry level machines....


AJ
 
Bob Gundu said:
Here's a summary of what we know so far.
http://www.macrumors.com/roundup/mac-pro/
Click to expand...
I really love my macbook retina and the thunderbolt connections ... but the new mac-pro seems a bit wimpy on the CPU side if this roundup is correct. I find most of my bottle necks now are on the CPU side, and I will probably wait till the new mac pro has a more serious cpu setup (i.e. something that would be compelling to me is 2 cpu's with 8 cores each). So I will let others have fun with the new macpro (I'm sure it will be a great machine) and stick with my macbook pro while using my linux systems (i.e. 128 gig ram, 32 threads, etc) for my heavier processing.
 
PatrickFaith said:
I really love my macbook retina and the thunderbolt connections ... but the new mac-pro seems a bit wimpy on the CPU side if this roundup is correct. I find most of my bottle necks now are on the CPU side, and I will probably wait till the new mac pro has a more serious cpu setup (i.e. something that would be compelling to me is 2 cpu's with 8 cores each). So I will let others have fun with the new macpro (I'm sure it will be a great machine) and stick with my macbook pro while using my linux systems (i.e. 128 gig ram, 32 threads, etc) for my heavier processing.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Apple has been moving away from old school CPU processing to OpenCL acceleration of whatever they can get away with, which is what those two space-heating GPUs inside the case are for and apps are slowly but surely catching up there.
 
Only 1 CPU - when you can have dual CPU on other machines
No nVidia - when you can have nVidia on other machines
ThunderBolt 2 - is nowhere near as fast as PCIe x16

Apple controls the OS but the machine is made of parts from other companies (Intel, AMD etc)

= You will always be able to purchase a faster more professional machine from another company.
 
MACPRO YES. why not... One or two edit sessions will pay it off.

1. HDMI out (hoping that it will push out 4k to a 4k projector or external monitor) - If not I'll plugin via thunderbolt a BLACKMAGIC 4k out box. I know a 4k Retina display is coming... (oops id I say that)
2. Thunderbolt RED ROCKET (but only if I find the MACPRO wont churn out R3D's real time) Which I'm suspecting it will, because my laptop can.
3. Thunderbolt external storage drives.

And thats all I'll ever need.

So I cannot see where the rats nest of wires are coming from. ?
Seems pretty simple to me.

Just saying.
 
Apples to Apples

Apples to Apples

I've been wondering about several of the same things as Antony - what options will we have to gang MacPros for those tasks that require it?

I'm assuming a new MacPro with a couple of decent GPUs will handle over 90% of my needs, both on set and in the suite. If I can hook several of them together for those times I need every ounce of muscle I can get, then Bob's Your Uncle.

As others have noted, I really think optimization of key software/drivers to leverage the hardware architecture is the crux of the biscuit. Windows machines waste a lot of their "on paper" horsepower due to bloatware, legacy code and poor integration. If Apple leverages their level of control over their ecosystem adroitly, they should be able to deliver real world performance metrics well above their weight class.

Cheers - #19
 
Heres my rat nest hypothetical situation:


Your armed with a Mac Pro, color accurate monitor, probably also a non color accurate monitor too. Your shiny trash can esque of a machine (the design is quite aesthetically pleasant, I'm just kidding around here) needs to not only hook into that but any/all of the following

your rocket, your external gpu(s), three different external drives, you probably need a capture card, maybe you even need a couple readers, or multiple readers cuz your shooting P2 or SXS as well with other cameras on the set, maybe Phantom Cine mag too...you need your lto solution as well. you probably want all of the above running fast enough to actually cycle the mags fast enough for the sets needs, so you have to try and divide your bandwidth uses over different ports and stuff like that.


In the long term, the stuff adds up faster then one might expect and now Apple is making me have more of the stuff live outside of the box itself. Hell I should show you guys my rat nest from work and you might get the idea.. We run 3 field monitors, 3 splitters, all tethered to an Avid with a Kona 3G card. that runs to 3 servers that runs to 5 edit bays...its a damn rat nest, even if I coil everything and make it perfect and bought new shorter lengths when possible or clipped and remade my own cords, because stuff is added all the time as we run out of capacity the nest grows.

So for me, I like having as much stuff in my Xeon as I can, since as far as I am concerned half the set is a nest of cords...going in every direction
 
Even thunderbolt 2 came to PC first check out the 3DBOXX 4170 xtreme, as for d new macpro processor I mean the one used in the bench mark, well welcome to 2012 an overclocked 3960x would defintely exceed that score espically with a good motherboard
 
Brian Merlen said:
Heres my rat nest hypothetical situation.......your rocket, your external gpu(s), three different external drives, you probably need a capture card, maybe you even need a couple readers, or multiple readers cuz your shooting P2 or SXS as well with other cameras on the set, maybe Phantom Cine mag too...you need your lto solution as well. you probably want all of the above running fast enough to actually cycle the mags fast enough for the sets needs, so you have to try and divide your bandwidth uses over different ports and stuff like that.
Click to expand...

Out of that entire list, the only things you mention that are internal on a slot based system but external on the new Mac Pro design are the rocket enclosure, external GPU's, and a capture card. Out of those, the rocket may not even be necessary going forward (multiple GPU support should easily provide enough throughput for dailies situations), external GPU's might be a moot point (with 2 internal GPU's of sufficient power for nearly anything we currently do, as long as the software is Open CL enabled - which most software either is or will be), and the capture card becomes a capture box, but still has connections to the video sources that represent cables in either case. So what I see is very little that's different from the current form factor, regardless of what it is you might feel you need based on past designs.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Cards suck. They are fragile to begin with and become more fragile over time. Components are exposed and can easily break, and when that happens they're usually not easily repaired. Simply inserting and removing a card is sometimes enough to destroy one of the connectors, which is sometimes not repairable. They sometimes require additional power beyond what the computer's base power supply is designed to provide. They often require drivers that break when the OS is upgraded and sometimes have conflicts with other drivers in the system. And you have to shut down and open the computer case to even install them, eliminating any flexibility in terms of field reconfiguring for different situations. The only advantage they really have is speed in a world in which we never had a cheap enough high speed interconnect that was simple and reliable enough to be deployed to civilians. Thunderbolt 2 is the first one to come along that provides most of that speed and none of the fragility of slots. Cards are a legacy design, born in an era when there was no alternative. That era is ending, and I for one am happy to see that happening.
 
the way this new mac pro sounds to me and compared to the way the RCX and resolve betas fly on my imac and retina, i just saved a bundle...i ordered the new rocketX with my dragon upgrade but can't see myself actually getting it....the new imac actually does such a great job combined with the new software....i am pretty sure that even a modest mac pro will eat through raw 6k in real time without breaking a sweat...all in one box, without any expansion....
the question is what can we expect in terms of displays and TB2 add ons in the next 6 month?
 
M Most said:
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Cards suck. They are fragile to begin with and become more fragile over time. Components are exposed and can easily break, and when that happens they're usually not easily repaired. Simply inserting and removing a card is sometimes enough to destroy one of the connectors, which is sometimes not repairable. They sometimes require additional power beyond what the computer's base power supply is designed to provide. They often require drivers that break when the OS is upgraded and sometimes have conflicts with other drivers in the system. And you have to shut down and open the computer case to even install them, eliminating any flexibility in terms of field reconfiguring for different situations. The only advantage they really have is speed in a world in which we never had a cheap enough high speed interconnect that was simple and reliable enough to be deployed to civilians. Thunderbolt 2 is the first one to come along that provides most of that speed and none of the fragility of slots. Cards are a legacy design, born in an era when there was no alternative. That era is ending, and I for one am happy to see that happening.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much the opposite of my experience... I find that the advantage of having something protected by the case (and convenience of not having cables and external enclosures to manage) FAR outweighs the install damage risk. I've broken a motherboard before when inserting a card but I've never actually damaged a card... I'm not a system builder but I've installed hundreds of cards over the years from ISA to PCI-E. As far as flexibility... you definitely give up some having hardware internal, but generally I build systems to do a task and don't reconfigure... so for me it's not a big deal (I could see it being a big deal if you're frequently rearranging your hardware setup). I think you're jumping the gun on the end of era prediction. I'd be surprised to see external enclosures replace internal install options for workstation class machines... though you may see identical internal/external bus options. Many of us would rebel at the idea of going back to the "rats nest of cables and enclosures" days. (and that would really destroy the Apple 'clean workspace' design aesthetic... which is one of the things I've always like about their systems)
 
paul schefz said:
do we know that there will only be single CPU options?
Click to expand...

All signs point to a single CPU as the logic board shown thus far is designed around a single CPU socket but it's certainly possible that it could go dual-CPU with another logic board design, though that would increase heat significantly on paper and might not be practical in reality. We just don't know at this point and with Apple making OpenCL mandatory, it's pretty much a given that they are relying heavily on the GPU's combined processing power to accelerate media functions.
 
M Most said:
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Cards suck. They are fragile to begin with and become more fragile over time. Components are exposed and can easily break, and when that happens they're usually not easily repaired. Simply inserting and removing a card is sometimes enough to destroy one of the connectors, which is sometimes not repairable.
Click to expand...

In my previous life, 15 years or so ago, I was Dell's senior engineer in the UK.

Things blew up at times, but I never dealt with any 'fragile' cards. You just take reasonable professional care when working inside the machine.

I dealt with endless issues of damaged cables and connectors, especially consumer-grade connectors.

Thunderbolt currently uses a consumer-grade non-locking connector.

Mike
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top