RocketDeck & RocketLink product suggestion

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I am not an engineer, I don't even play one on TV, but I'd sure love the rock star engineers at RED to consider the feasibility of the following:

RocketDeck:

Put a RedRocket-X and a RedStation mag reader in a stand alone chassis with multiple I/O options. Can be connected to computers via Thunderbolt 2, USB 3, etc and used as an external RedRocket-X appliance with a mag reader on the same fast bus, as well as direct connection to monitoring over SDI, HDMI, etc.

Include a mid-level CPU, RAM, 256GB SSD and an OS so if desired it could stand alone. Design it to be controlled from a laptop, tablet, phone, USB, Bluetooth, etc. The Rocket-X is doing the heavy lifting as well as providing monitor output(s) for GUI and full quality clean image (laptop, tablet or phone could display the GUI as well) so the "host" would not need expensive high end chips.

Now you have a roughly $10,000 (rack mountable please) black box that can be used to play out r3ds at your resolution of choice up to 4K in real time. It could use RedCinePro-X or something similar as the control environment so you can tweak the image to taste for the live outputs. Among other things, this would allow you to push out a graded RGB image at UHD or 4K over 4x SDI or other appropriate I/O for ingest/recording/etc in real time.

RocketLink:

Now here's the kicker. What if you made plugs that fit into an Epic SSD module, using the existing pins/contacts, and fed that out over fiber (tactical please) to a matching plug on the other end that fit into the mag reader in the RocketDeck. The RAW bitstream would then be decoded by the Rocket-X, "shaded" by the virtual CCU provided by the look tools in RedCinePro-X (or perhaps a modified version of same) and sent out to the switcher over SDI or HDMI for live hardlined production applications.

This topology allows the heavy decoding effort to happen away from the camera so no expensive, heavy, power hungry, heat generating module has to be added. In addition, it allows the metrics of the decode and playback to be managed at the technical/switching station in the truck/control room where "shaders" have traditionally been situated. Yes, I realize actual iris control would probably not be supported, but the operator could set it manually to something appropriate to the situation, and with 16 stops of DR the shader should be able to ride the levels and match the cameras nicely.

There are probably gotchas I haven't thought of, but I like the fact that it shouldn't require any re-engineering of the camera itself. It might even support iso recording by adding a rear SSD module in addition to the side SSD - not sure if the internal signal routing would allow that, but it seems likely. IAC, always looking for ways to use my favorite camera in a wider range of applications.

Cheers - #19

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Puzzled

Puzzled

Is there really nobody out there who sees value in this concept?

If the RedUser community shows no interest, I doubt RED will either.

With the release of the Dragon we will have the premier motion capture device on the planet at a time when UHD/4K is about to get real. Having an infrastructure capable of doing UHD/4K live sure seems like a great way to expand the use cases for Epics. Am I the only owner/op who likes the idea of more rental income?

Cheers - #19

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Hmmm

Hmmm

Wow. I guess the F55 will have the UHD/4K EFP market all to itself.

Still can't believe nobody is interested the RocketDeck device. Being able to scrub/review R3Ds with a full decode in real time to a UHD or 1080 monitor with RCP-X look tools using a box that just needs power, a tablet and a cable to the monitor is of no use to anyone but me? You realize it can also function as a RedRocket-X peripheral enclosure for use with existing computer systems, even if the real time play out at UHD or 4K isn't a big deal for you? Or have I just not explained the concept well enough?

Cheers - #19

 

[Clark Dunbar]

Blair - I think it's great and I understood the concept in your post. Could see that there could be variations to suit particular needs/requirments.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Ahead of my time?

Ahead of my time?

Thanks Clark.

I'd even understand if people posted about why it wouldn't be of use to them, fair enough. Just amazed that it didn't strike a chord.

Oh well, I guess I'm just the guy that put down a $1,000 deposit on a camera some thought was impossible and predicted Jim would buy Ren-Mar 2 months before it was official.

Cheers - #19

 

[Clark Dunbar]

heya - I'm one of those that probably wouldn't have a direct use for it - but I can easily see it's value.

 

[Tom Gleeson]

I like the RocketDeck idea and as Apple moves away from PCI cards many of us are going to have to have our cards in TB enclosures anyway. The moment a RR card is in an enclosure it is a portable device able to be easily used on multiple machines and on location. Including a SSD reader is brilliant but probably do not need the box to be a standalone computer as laptops are ubiquitous and the laptops are generally no larger than a monitor screen required for the GUI. I would not be suprised if Red is not already considering an idea similar to this.

 

[brett ogden]

Maybe this is a Idea for someone like Maxx Digital?

 

[Alex Kiritz]

Jarred had that second idea a while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhURs2ho9xk&t=1m16s

 

[Jason Diamond]

I am not an engineer, I don't even play one on TV, but I'd sure love the rock star engineers at RED to consider the feasibility of the following:

RocketDeck:

Wasn't that the orig REDRay Player? It had SSD slots in the front and was supposed to transcode and play out raw from the ssd mag if you wanted. was listed at $2500 or less if I'm not mistaken. so def feasible. there was also a smaller, cheaper consumer REDRay player announced at the same time that if I recall is basically the unit that is on the RED store now.

For the Rocketlink: Wouldn't a module that pulled the 4K data raw from the pinout on the back of the camera be easier and safer than something in the SSD slot? Tehnically the same data comes through the pins since it's a PCI-e 2 slot basically.

great ideas!!!

 

[Nick Timmons]

Over standard Thunderbolt, you're knee-capping yourself on bandwidth using the Rocket-X. Even over TB2, you're nowhere near the bandwidth of PCI-e gen3 x16, so I don't really see the value for the Rocket-X. Of course, we'll have to wait until the new Rocket is an actual thing you can buy to judge...

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Putting a RedRocket-X in an external enclosure vs putting it in a proper PCIe slot will likely include a speed penalty. That said, portability has its benefits and there's nothing to stop you from pulling the RedRocket-X out of the external enclosure and popping it in a PCIe slot when it suits you.

I get your point Tom about a laptop being a simple enough way to drive the unit without an internal computer being needed. That said, once a laptop is in the signal chain it's bus architecture could easily become a data bottleneck. I'd rather just use the laptop as a monitor/keyboard/mouse. Moreover, using Team Viewer or some other remote access application it should be possible to operate the RocketDeck from almost anywhere. Another upside to having a mid-level PC internal to the RocketDeck, which also hosts a mag reader, is that you can connect shuttle drives and use it make copies without tying up your laptop or tablet.

Not opposed to pulling the RAW data off the rear pinouts Jason, something akin to a triax back is fine. That said, the SSD modules already exist (no waiting) and since there's at least one on every camera, sub-renting for multi-cam shows wouldn't require rounding up data output modules that not everyone's camera package would include.

Yes, once upon a time RED showed a prototype of a RedRay variant that could play out from SSDs and my concept shares some of the same theoretical features - I'd even be cool with a similar form factor. The RocketDeck is intended to go another step, by offering utility in a wider variety of usages and leveraging the muscle of the Rocket-X.

Cheers - #19

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Years ago I posted about how great it would be to have a R3D "deck" - as some folks (who have a hard time mentally processing what a modern workflow is) really like stand-alone "appliances" like decks as opposed to a guy with a computer on a cart. And no doubt, there are many run-and-gun and/or harsh location scenarious where a military grade "case" is far more practical than a cart.

But, with a GPU debayer coming in addition to Rocket-X - there's plenty of ways folks could "roll their own" rackmount R3D playout/transcode solution using micro-atx motherboard, etc. I think the time has passed for RED to invest time and energy into this. GPU debayer (in addition to Rocket-X) ends all negative converstaion about post workflow IMO. I'm excited for more camera-related accessories, products and modules from RED - and I hope that is where their focus is.

With resect to R3D over fibre - that's an obvious, logical target if one wants live and multi-cam event/truck style production not to mention specialized industrial applications. I'd be shocked if it wasn't already in the works.

 

[Eric Santiago]

The deck idea reminds me off the Black Betty camera currently in the news.

I dont know how their using that chip along with the mac Mini.

I would love a small form factor CPU/REDMAG reader/duplicator/toaster/karaoke machine

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I would love a small form factor CPU/REDMAG reader/duplicator/toaster/karaoke machine

Lots of great micro-atx motherboards and military cases to build whatever you want. That said ... sure would be nice if RED sold the bay mount RED mag readers they make for the HP / RED workstation -

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Industrial design

Industrial design

Mark is correct of course, you could "roll your own" solution. That said, a RED branded "deck" that had industry standard connections, and, by dint of having a Rocket-X inside, could be counted on to handle any flavor of R3Ds in real time, plus RCP-X look tools as a real time paintbox/CCU would suit many environments where a DIY rig with an OS would be anathema - especially in "mission critical" live scenarios. Moreover, I think Mark is correct that there are lots of folks much more comfortable with a "deck like" appliance, than a cart and operator.

The ability to use commodity GPUs for decoding R3Ds will be a wonderful option, but, unless I'm misreading the tea leaves, it will likely take a pretty serious rig to achieve rock solid real time playback of highly compressed and encrypted 6K RAW files. Two Titans, a reasonably fast CPU or two, enough power and cooling to host it all, etc would likely be $3,000+. You'd still need a RedStation mag reader, perhaps a breakout box to support connectivity, ...

At the end of the day, I'd prefer to have something like the RocketDeck that has processing power to burn, can be effectively deployed in a wide variety of use cases and offers operational characteristics familiar to a broad range of professional production folk.

Cheers - #19