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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon....

Jarred Land said:
Sorry.. Don't worry about it. Some guys started going on about how they didn't like our logo and posted examples of how it should look.. which I hope people can understand Jim and I would take great offense to. They deleted their posts and everything is good now.
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That being said and this is totally off topic... I just watched This Is The End and the RED logo at the end looked really out of place. Everything else had nice crisp black and white logos but RED's looked like a 3D rendering that just been desaturated. It was amateurish by comparison. I would vote for a higher contrast option for putting at the end of credits.

Jens Jakob Thorsen said:
I am sad to burst your Gosling bubble, but on some productions a person is hired to take care of the focusing of the image. It is the hand of the, so called, focuspuller, you have wrongly identified as Goslings third hand.
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I know I know... it just took me a couple seconds when looking at the image thinking "something... is ... off..." before I figured out what was 'wrong' with the image. :D
 
Eric Santiago said:
Off topic but I would love to see RED DRAGON 8.75 inch wide skate decks in the RED STORE soon ;)

Id use stickers but they come off way to easily during board slides :P
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Thats like practically old school size! What shoe size are you? I like 7.5 or max 7.75
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Seriously. We knew it was coming, but this is almost just as sweet if not equally amazing as the new sensor release.

#betterthanfilmeverwas

oh, yes I did
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I'm excited to see how it matches up to some 65mm and 70mm prints. The greatest blacks and color range I've seen on film stock of course. 6K and new color science is a dream!
 
Me too. This isn't about whichever perfect points of film however. Facts like a five gallon bucket of DR to quench your thirst, a no-noise noise floor, Graeme drawing the constellation for it, and it coming out of tiny little monster Epic mean that we will never pick up film again, other than for 8mm (16mm) period flashback shit, and not even for that with the right color work. I mean, at least I am already here fully in the digital world and happy --And now this thing shows up! Wrestling with being wholly better, AND individually better than film...

Even if it did turn out that some could argue due to roll-off or what-have-you that film still had some kind miniscule of edge on DR, 1/4 stop, whatever... If... Still! Why?

I know it is coming, but for the purpose of stating it: Give me readily-apparent lower noise floor than MX, the kind of DR we saw in the tests, third-generation Graecolorimetry and everything else we already know happens at higher resolutions, and all I am left with to say is: Why! Why would you ever want to shoot film again??

All of the beauty of big film and all of the beauty that Dragon will deliver, that is all I could ever demand for my images... The rest is gravy.
 
I know everybody is mainly excited about higher DR...but I am most excited but low light capabilities and low noise. If we can really shoot at ISO 1600-2000 with no noise then imagine how much smaller your light package will be. I'd love to be able to shoot with mainly LED lights (which most are underpowered and do not have a very strong light output compare to HMIs). Personally I thought the current Epic did a good job already in DR and highlight handling.... It's biggest weakness in my opinion has always been its low light capability (too noisy at iso 800 in low light) compare to other cameras. Looks like Dragon will change all that! YAY!!!! :)
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Me too. This isn't about whichever perfect points of film however. Facts like a five gallon bucket of DR to quench your thirst, a no-noise noise floor, Graeme drawing the constellation for it, and it coming out of tiny little monster Epic mean that we will never pick up film again, other than for 8mm (16mm) period flashback shit, and not even for that with the right color work. I mean, at least I am already here fully in the digital world and happy --And now this thing shows up! Wrestling with being wholly better, AND individually better than film...

Even if it did turn out that some could argue due to roll-off or what-have-you that film still had some kind miniscule of edge on DR, 1/4 stop, whatever... If... Still! Why?

I know it is coming, but for the purpose of stating it: Give me readily-apparent lower noise floor than MX, the kind of DR we saw in the tests, third-generation Graecolorimetry and everything else we already know happens at higher resolutions, and all I am left with to say is: Why! Why would you ever want to shoot film again??

All of the beauty of big film and all of the beauty that Dragon will deliver, that is all I could ever demand for my images... The rest is gravy.
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RED EPIC-X is already a great digital camera.
RED EPIC DRAGON will be even more amazing.
I am all in favor for going the digital route in the future - this is inevitable.

BUT - for those comparing RED to film (or hoping that Dragon will match 65mm/70mm film) - have you seen THE MASTER projected in 70mm last year?
I am sorry to say, but digital is still a long, LONG distance away from what film is capable.
That's the simple truth, and anyone honest and open-minded who watched THE MASTER in 70mm must have realized the truth.

It will be several generations of camera/sensors before digital approaches film, especially large format film.

I don't want to start a debate. I love digital, this is the future, and I own an EPIC (amazing camera). But we can't fool ourselves and be blinded by an obvious fact. There's still a long way to the image quality of 70mm film.

Of course, who wants to shoot anymore on enormous cameras, change large magazines, etc etc? No one (me included). Digital has tons of advantages. I am ONLY talking about the image quality.
 
But then in all honesty You also haven't seen DRAGON footage compared to 65/70mm in order to voice an honest and informed opinion... Just saying... ;)

We content ourselves that Digital surpassed 35mm... What ever Dragon does is icing on the cake, but I have no doubt it will indeed be closer to 65/70mm Film then 35mm!


Let's just wait and see what kind of Fire does Dragon spit before saying anything else about comparing one to the other.
 
I think most of us on here have seen 2001. The opening "dawn of man" scenes give me goose bumps every time. Anyone lucky enough to see the 70mm print knows the mysterious magic that film entails. I'm very interested in how Dragon can achieve this magic. I haven't seen anything yet so I don't know... Only hopes and dreams
 
while you are at it, don't forget the upcoming Panavision digital 70mm camera, undergoing final tests and with a whole set of lenses designed exclusively for it....
 
Michael Epple said:
Can we get some images on here so I don't have to wade through incessant, redundant blather about digital vs. film? It's starting to make me want to vomit. I already did a little in my mouth.
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I recommend Tic Tac :-)
 
Ketch I have a big feeling that it is gonna be better than we expect, even though we can use our imagination about more DR and a 2000 ISO clean. This long waiting has something under the core of the fire on the lungs of the dragons, or from whatever a dragon's fire comes from inside! LOL

Cheers!
 
Jannard & Jarred! will we need special Oakley/Red shades so when the fire comes out the dragon we won't get blind?

I am a bit concerned about that...heheheheh
 
Medavoym said:
Of course, who wants to shoot anymore on enormous cameras, change large magazines, etc etc? No one (me included). Digital has tons of advantages. I am ONLY talking about the image quality.
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Are you talking about image quality for the sake of image quality, or are you being pragmatic? You don't disagree, clearly, but to appease your lingering doubts let me remind you that virtually NO audience members will watch 70mm projections and that number is only going to get smaller. We are talking 1080p, 2k and 4k deliveries; from whatever you get to shoot with. With that in mind, do you really see yourself wanting to shoot 70mm over Dragon in an Epic???
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Are you talking about image quality for the sake of image quality, or are you being pragmatic? You don't disagree, clearly, but to appease your lingering doubts let me remind you that virtually NO audience members will watch 70mm projections and that number is only going to get smaller. We are talking 1080p, 2k and 4k deliveries; from whatever you get to shoot with. With that in mind, do you really see yourself wanting to shoot 70mm over Dragon in an Epic???
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I agree with you on all the pragmatic points. Indeed, I would rather shoot EPIC vs 35mm for many of those reasons (mainly, logistical). There are huge advantages that (good) digital has over 35mm (not worth mentioning them again).

I was only talking about image quality. Epic is not better then 35mm in terms of image quality. Now, I see people hoping that Dragon will be equal to 70mm.
I am just advocating for a reality check.

Epic is an amazing camera (thanks Red!), and Dragon will be much better, we all hope that (and have every reason to believe so).
BUT - being on reduser notwithstanding - let's be honest with ourselves. Now, today, there is still some way to go until we reach/surpass film image quality - 35mm, not to mention 70mm. Digital (and RED) will get there, make no mistake about it.

But for now, I am hoping Dragon matches 35mm quality - dynamic range, color, texture, feel etc (resolution is already checked). That would be awesome.
Let's leave 70mm aside for a minute, since the next target is 35mm (as yet unmatched).
In other words, let's be realistic about our expectations.

Hope I'm making sense. This is no film vs digital debate. There is no debate anymore - digital is the future.
 
Yeah but will you even be able to buy one? Rent is probably your only option, as it's been with the lenses for decades.

Rudi Herbert said:
while you are at it, don't forget the upcoming Panavision digital 70mm camera, undergoing final tests and with a whole set of lenses designed exclusively for it....
Click to expand...
 
Rudi Herbert said:
while you are at it, don't forget the upcoming Panavision digital 70mm camera, undergoing final tests and with a whole set of lenses designed exclusively for it....
Click to expand...

Will Keir said:
Yeah but will you even be able to buy one? Rent is probably your only option, as it's been with the lenses for decades.
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I think a camera like that will only be used on movies like The Lone Ranger, John Carter, Whitehouse Down and other movies that fall into that category. '-)
 
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