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Red Scarlet Vs. 5D3 Raw Sharpness Comparison

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Ryan Lightbourn

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EDIT: can't change the post title...this test is in terms of a 1080p timeline/delivery

Interesting test that I put together.

I was swapping cameras & lenses back and forth, so conditions were extremely similar for both.

For more accurate results, hit the 'Download' tab and download 'Original .MOV file'
https://vimeo.com/69803484

I love both cameras. Each has it's own merits, but it's great to finally have full frame raw in such a small camera body.
 
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Although it's way more subtle than before, you can still see marching ants line-skipping issues so the MkIII footage (looks at the building roofs).

This would create emphasized wrinkles on human skin - the BM camera does this too - not usually something you want.

Motion also looks odd on MKIII footage sometimes - hard to put my finger on why.

Highlight roll-off on Scarlet much more pleasing to my eye.

All Red cameras have a kind of creamy smoothness mixed with sharpness which is why I love shooting Red.

Sure these things are subtle (actually, facial wrinkles, not show here - not so subtle) , but if you have no eye for subtlety you are in the wrong business.

To the *&^& who is going to say "its' all about story" in this thread - if your actress looks older than she is because of over-sharpening/OLPF issues then that affects story no? I mean, they cast someone to look a certain age, and now she appears older, because you insist cheap crap cameras are "good enough" and it "doesn't matter". To do this is to re-write the age of the character.

As far as noise in the shadows this is compression-related - on Epic at 5:1 there is virtually none - at 3:1 you can dig into shadows to a crazy extent.
 
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Robert Ruffo New said:
As far as noise in the shadows this is compression-related - on Epic at 5:1 there is virtually none - at 3:1 you can dig into shadows to a crazy extent.
Click to expand...

This is a test of 5D3 vs. Scarlet...not Epic.

Although I agree, the Scarlet footage is very slightly more pleasing to the eye, in many cases an additional $10,000 (or few hundred in rental cost) wouldn't justify the difference. It's exciting for younger filmmakers who can't afford the premium. It may also force the industry to drop prices on camera bodies, which is fine for me.

I prefer the collect 'em all method...different bodies for different jobs. I sure as hell won't be using my Scarlet & One as much anymore.
 
Honestly, in my experience their (usable) DR is very similar -- ~12 stops -- but I prefer the Canon sensor/colour and think it's better throughout the range... Plus FF35/65mm is it's own hotness. If only they could button down the rolling shutter.

Does Highlight Tone Priority work when using MLraw video? If so, I'd argue that the Canon has more usable DR, particularly when tonality and colour are taken into consideration (assuming it's the same as their RAW stills.) Not bad for a $3k 2lbs stills camera that can run dead-silent for an hour off a $50 battery that easily fits into even the smallest of pockets. Seriously, if you didn't label your footage, nobody would know it was shot on two different cameras (at 1080p.)
 
Push in 200% and repost test footages.
Otherwise it's pointless.
 
Les Dittert said:
Push in 200% and repost test footages.
Otherwise it's pointless.
Click to expand...

My apologies, I meant with a 1080p timeline/export. Can't change the post title unfortunately.
 
Mike P. said:
Does Highlight Tone Priority work when using MLraw video? If so, I'd argue that the Canon has more usable DR, particularly when tonality and colour are taken into consideration (assuming it's the same as their RAW stills.) Not bad for a $3k 2lbs stills camera that can run dead-silent for an hour off a $50 battery that easily fits into even the smallest of pockets. Seriously, if you didn't label your footage, nobody would know it was shot on two different cameras (at 1080p.)
Click to expand...

Haven't used HTP so not sure. Would that create a non-linear shift in brightness during your shots, or does it not change from still-to-still?

Color was very similar between the two...maybe slightly better on the Canon.

And yeah, it's insane that you can achieve this look for just over $3k. You can add a handheld gyro stabilizer ($1800), camera cage, a full days worth of CF cards, monitor, remote follow focus, pelican case, and some sweet glass for less than the cost of a useable handheld/tripod-only Scarlet kit.

Some of you guys look so hard for reasons to trash the 5D footage, yet it looks INSANELY similar to the Scarlet and you can't deny that. I didn't post this for Red users to get butthurt...these are simply exciting times for filmmakers. I'm a Red user myself. Each camera has it's pros & cons and I'll continue to shoot with whichever one the gig calls for.
 
If you want to be stuck in 1080 land, I agree that it doesn't make sense to invest in Red. But if you're making meaningful content that will stick around, it makes perfect sense to shoot +4k. In that arena, Red is a slam dunk.
 
At least this shows the true power the Canon DSLRs have but are purposely limited via firmware...
IF they even manage to get it to record to 12 bit compressed CinemaDNG , this would be something epic >.<
 
it's all about getting the best camera for the job...digital or film...then the best lighting package...grip..art direction....etc..(camera is only apart of it)
 
Malvin Ng said:
At least this shows the true power the Canon DSLRs have but are purposely limited via firmware...
IF they even manage to get it to record to 12 bit compressed CinemaDNG , this would be something epic >.<
Click to expand...

Ish. There are two reasons to limit things through firmware or similar. Yes it is sometime used to stop a lower end product getting to close to the higher models. Far more commonly it is used to make a product more reliable, letting something push its hardware all the way means a very high failure rate, which would in many cases cause crippling warranty returns, so the hardware is limited to a rate that hardware failures stay within an acceptable percentage. Stability is also a reason for doing it, even if a failure only causes a crash with no lasting damage, a piece of hardware may be restricted to keep this from happening.

Some manufacturers even us components that failed QA for a higher range product by a certain margin in lower range products, and use firmware to keep the . The Scarlet is an example.

Canon are likely very glad that ML are doing this hacking, and indeed allow warranty protection to remain as long as they don't feel the risk of hardware faliure is unacceptable (the RAW hack caused them to say that certain failures with it running may not be reparable under warranty). If they didn't like it they would be entirely within their rights to void the warranty in more cases.

I'm not saying that this accounts for all the restrictions, but don't always assume that companies are restricting cameras just to make different models more different.
 
An update that will ease some of your minds:

I pulled out ACR's default sharpening, and now the Scarlet footage in fact has a very slight edge in sharpness @ 1080p.

Link updating now.
 
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It's not too bad next to the scarlet footage. But the big thing I noticed are artifacts in the lines, download the original and you'll really notice it, it almost looks like an artificial sharpening compared to the smooth lines from the scarlet. Definitely needs an OLPF. Plus the detail is no where near the same.
 
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Jason L said:
It's not too bad next to the scarlet footage. But the big thing I noticed are artifacts in the lines
Click to expand...

The power lines on that island (Spanish Wells) are all painted in black & white stripes. Since the 5D3 shots were a little closer to some of them...it looks like aliasing. Aliasing is extremely low in raw mode.

See blown up example here:
http://ryanlightbourn.com/uploads/5d...ower_lines.jpg
 
Here's a 100% crop.

Scarlet is much cleaner on the lines.

5D left, Scarlet right


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