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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Lucas & Spielberg discuss the future of cinema

Randall Weatherington said:
The was very interesting.
http://variety.com/2013/digital/news/lucas-spielberg-on-future-of-entertainment-1200496241/
Click to expand...

Nice. I saw this a few weeks ago, too. I muse about this all the time...interesting to see even the big dogs have similar feelings. Studios have the clout though, so all that needs to be done is a simple shift. I read somewhere that it has been statistically shown that a raft of 25 films will always have at least one breakout hit that will pay for all the other loss leaders.

I have always wondered why this has never been instituted at the studio level. Set aside $25mil (which as we know is nothing for a studio) and hire 50 hungry, film school grads -- give them each $500K to make a film, and you end up with 50 movies. It is almost guaranteed that something will rise to the top of all the offal. Maybe Jim should invest in content creation. There are a bunch of high profile, yet independent filmmakers that likely abhor the studio system. (cough Soderbergh cough)

"Spielberg noted that because so many forms of entertainment are competing for attention, they would rather spend $250 million on a single film than make several personal, quirky projects." They continue along this current path, and the way entertainment is created will definitely shift to the artists. In a lot of ways, it already has.
 
Eryc Tramonn said:
....I have always wondered why this has never been instituted at the studio level. Set aside $25mil (which as we know is nothing for a studio) and hire 50 hungry, film school grads -- give them each $500K to make a film, and you end up with 50 movies. It is almost guaranteed that something will rise to the top of all the offal. Maybe Jim should invest in content creation. There are a bunch of high profile, yet independent filmmakers that likely abhor the studio system. (cough Soderbergh cough)....
Click to expand...

video of the conference at USC w/ LUcas/Spielberg

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vi...-on-the-future-of-the-movie-business/3xv2fj8g

________________

Throwing a bunch of cheap movies out to the market seems like common sense but it's been tried more or
less and it doesn't really work out in the end. The Industry survives only on the homeruns.

Independent Digital Entertainment tried to do 10 films for $1,000,000 but it didn't really work in business terms.
Way back in the year 2000 DV revolution

http://www.indiewire.com/article/in...es_the_mainstream_indigents_gary_winick_on_th
http://news.moviefone.com/2006/12/05/indigent-shuts-down-in-january/

They got a bunch of stuff made...but Ever seen these movies...? anyone heard of these movies..?

http://www.imdb.com/company/co0013020/?ref_=tt_dt_co

November in 2004 got some press and starred Courtney Cox and it won best cinematography award at Sundance w/DVX100

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368089/
Budget: $150,000 (estimated)

Opening Weekend: $21,813 (USA) (22 July 2005)

Gross: $191,309 (USA) (7 October 2005)
 
Steve Das said:
video of the conference at USC w/ LUcas/Spielberg

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vi...-on-the-future-of-the-movie-business/3xv2fj8g

________________

Throwing a bunch of cheap movies out to the market seems like common sense but it's been tried more or
less and it doesn't really work out in the end. The Industry survives only on the homeruns.

Independent Digital Entertainment tried to do 10 films for $1,000,000 but it didn't really work in business terms.
Way back in the year 2000 DV revolution

http://www.indiewire.com/article/in...es_the_mainstream_indigents_gary_winick_on_th
http://news.moviefone.com/2006/12/05/indigent-shuts-down-in-january/

They got a bunch of stuff made...but Ever seen these movies...? anyone heard of these movies..?

http://www.imdb.com/company/co0013020/?ref_=tt_dt_co

November in 2004 got some press and starred Courtney Cox and it won best cinematography award at Sundance w/DVX100

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368089/
Budget: $150,000 (estimated)

Opening Weekend: $21,813 (USA) (22 July 2005)

Gross: $191,309 (USA) (7 October 2005)
Click to expand...


Thanks for the feedback, and especially the link, Steve. Maybe the model didn't work because of surrounding cost inhibitors at the time. Just making a guess. Obviously, as you are suggesting, marketing is an extremely important component in the success of media. And currently, only studios possess the ability to brainwash people into seeing their content with billboards and ads literally everywhere you turn.

A similar strategic marketing, metric-based approach to distribution will need to be employed by indies on a smaller scale. And by that, I mean, indies will have to make intelligent decisions regarding their outlay, and projected ability to garner an ROI.

With the right mix of things an indie distribution platform like ODEMAX combined with REDRAY could change the outcome of what your research returned. I keep envisioning kids that have grown up watching Vimeo and Youtube, looking for the "grown up" equivalent of those paradigms. That "grown up" model could look something like user-produced content, but user-produced content in high resolutions, with decent production values and distributed to the venue of your choice -- anything from iPhones to a neighborhood multiplex.

A truly viral sensation would change the way we think about this as a possibility, and it would be extremely interesting to see how the studio system modified its approach in the event of such an occurrence.
 
Very interesting., Thankz for Share
 
Robert Rodriguez made "El Mariachi" for $10,000 on 16mm.
Columbia then spent $1.5 million converting it to 35mm and releasing it.
I spent a few weeks at CFI Title & Optical converting it from 16 to 35mm, which also involved some special effects, like creating machine gun firing from a real machine gun that was using blanks so weak they could not work the mechanism after the first shot.
Bottom line is that this film worked, so once in a while a very low budget film can be successful.
However, I was told Columbia did test screen "El Mariachi" before acquiring it.
 
Randall Weatherington said:
Robert Rodriguez made "El Mariachi" for $10,000 on 16mm.
Columbia then spent $1.5 million converting it to 35mm and releasing it.
I spent a few weeks at CFI Title & Optical converting it from 16 to 35mm, which also involved some special effects, like creating machine gun firing from a real machine gun that was using blanks so weak they could not work the mechanism after the first shot.
Bottom line is that this film worked, so once in a while a very low budget film can be successful.
However, I was told Columbia did test screen "El Mariachi" before acquiring it.
Click to expand...

Rodriguez claims it was actually $7K in his book Rebel Without a Crew. Although a lot of people have doubted his claim, including friends who are cinematographers, I believe him because I know what I have done. I also crunched the numbers because I wanted to attempt something similar, even courted the idea of shooting Super 8 Ektachrome for a feature -- haha. Needless to say, I was a bit crazed at the time, and was even encouraged by my profs to do it.

If one were super-economical, and cut in camera as he claims he did, it is conceivable with a solid plan. Would that be the most ideal way to work? Of course not. But we often do what circumstance mandates.

Anyway, the book is quite illuminating if you haven't read it, entertaining if nothing else, and I would recommend it to any indie filmmaker. Paranormal Activity and Blair Witch are also no-budget/micro-budget projects that went on to outrageous success. Although these films represent anomalous occurrences, that does not mean we might not see more of it in the future. Anything can happen -- it happened for those three movies, so why not others? And the climate is certainly more primed for it than it has ever been at any point in the history of cinema.

Super cool that you were able to work on El Mariachi -- you definitely have a unique perspective of the film. Thanks for sharing it, Randall.

I'm going for it. We only live once. :)
 
Stefan Antonescu said:
Link goes back to bing... Anyone having the same problem ?

I've been searching for the full interview (a video or an article) for some time now without succes.
Click to expand...

The link is working for me, Stefan.

Lucas calls it out...the problem is "marketing" for indies. And then he goes on to say that there is currently no way to monetize your creation. He likely has not heard about the prospect of ODEMAX -- and I'm saying that to be an ass, I'm saying it because he likely hasn't. I recently ran into Mr. David Mullen, and when queried about it, even he wasn't familiar.

Anyway, I think most of us get it, or we wouldn't be HERE (simply mean REDuser with great emphasis) -- and if someone doesn't get it, I'm not sure there's anything that anyone can say to change that. They'll get it once one of us is already capitalizing on the wild, wild west we are entering.

It depends on what you're hoping to accomplish, but I hope people have either been building their crews, or making efforts to join one. All the gear in the world means nothing without competent people operating it to the service of a good story.

Best,

Eryc
 
This is what needs to happen and is going to happen from my view...The top dogs are talking to keep us out of the game. They don't want to give up their spots to consumer digital world dreamer's like us..the film world will never except the digital film makers because of the craft that it take to create a beautiful film. We are like the cheaters due to having an option to shoot in auto and the camera is made to shoot beautiful pictures so we don't need a big budget to pay a lot of people etc. Example if I spent 3 millions on my 35mm film with all of the trimmings and a punk with a digital camera spent $10,000.00 and his/her film looked great and is better than mine I would be pissed off. I would take the next 3 million put it in my pocket and then fire everyone after I bought the same camera as that little punk did. What happened is the game changed and the more people you let make film the smaller the pot gets because everyone has a film at the box office.
 
What's wrong with the digital film makers?? I'm glad you asked =) the problem with our so called digital film making world is everyone has a dream and want to make a film so now there's a race to the box office because everyone wants to get rich and live like the Hollywood stars right? Give me a hell yes!!! major issue with that...what's the issue?? I'm glad you asked=) No one is standing behind someone with a vision! Everyone is out for themselves! They use all of their friends and family as actors ,DP, Directors etc.to make a cheap ass BS film then act like no one can touch us instead of listening to someone with a vision and putting a proper team together to make a difference and force a spot in the film world. Panavision, sony etc. has made digital film and put the price on cameras as high as $300.000.00 to lock us out by stating what was your movie shot with? or what was your budget? If we can't reach the starting gate you have nothing but a youtube movie or short film. Educate yourself before making a film because the rules to the game change everyday. I'm about to make my mark! if you have no demand they don't want you. make a great movie and let the people make you because RED has made the gear to get us their and we may not be on the same playing field long because the industry may ask RED to make them a camera that consumers can not have and pay them $300.000.00 a camera...Game Over
 
Tony Harris said:
This is what needs to happen and is going to happen from my view...The top dogs are talking to keep us out of the game. They don't want to give up their spots to consumer digital world dreamer's like us..the film world will never except the digital film makers because of the craft that it take to create a beautiful film. We are like the cheaters due to having an option to shoot in auto and the camera is made to shoot beautiful pictures so we don't need a big budget to pay a lot of people etc. Example if I spent 3 millions on my 35mm film with all of the trimmings and a punk with a digital camera spent $10,000.00 and his/her film looked great and is better than mine I would be pissed off. I would take the next 3 million put it in my pocket and then fire everyone after I bought the same camera as that little punk did.
Click to expand...

My thinking, too. And I studied where those two guys are sitting.

Tony Harris said:
What happened is the game changed and the more people you let make film the smaller the pot gets because everyone has a film at the box office.
Click to expand...

I have thought this VERY same thing. If you let everyone make films, even when they prove successful, there will a be certain amount of dilution that would occur. Sharing proceeds means that you ultimately reduce your market share. So it seems to follow that the controlling interests of the castle have been exceedingly careful in regard to letting too many people in. In the end, it seems like a mostly unwarranted fear of scarcity.

The old guard, in a way, is scared $hitless. The tide of change is crashing down.

One of the major things I see hindering indies is organization. Without organization, and cooperation, there will be very defined limits to the projects that can be tackled. Does this mean that we won't ever see a one man outfit do a photo real Ironman short with babies, and a crap load of VFX? Of course not. Haha. It's already been done. But those are special cases, and generally to achieve those kinds of production values, you have to work in teams.

It would be really great to see artists empower themselves, stop building pyramids for the overlords, and start doing it for themselves. Even small teams can accomplish pretty tremendous things. Look at Freddie Wong. :)
 
Tony Harris said:
What's wrong with the digital film makers?? I'm glad you asked =) the problem with our so called digital film making world is everyone has a dream and want to make a film so now there's a race to the box office because everyone wants to get rich and live like the Hollywood stars right? Give me a hell yes!!! major issue with that...what's the issue?? I'm glad you asked=) No one is standing behind someone with a vision! Everyone is out for themselves! They use all of their friends and family as actors ,DP, Directors etc.to make a cheap ass BS film then act like no one can touch us instead of listening to someone with a vision and putting a proper team together to make a difference and force a spot in the film world. Panavision, sony etc. has made digital film and put the price on cameras as high as $300.000.00 to lock us out by stating what was your movie shot with? or what was your budget? If we can't reach the starting gate you have nothing but a youtube movie or short film. Educate yourself before making a film because the rules to the game change everyday. I'm about to make my mark! if you have no demand they don't want you. make a great movie and let the people make you because RED has made the gear to get us their and we may not be on the same playing field long because the industry may ask RED to make them a camera that consumers can not have and pay them $300.000.00 a camera...Game Over
Click to expand...

Okay, sir. You have my attention.

I could not agree with you more. As I mentioned in a post above, one of the largest problems for indies is everyone's desire to go on a cash grab. People are inherently greedy. Hell, I am, too...but apparently I have a little more self-control than most. I believe in "collaboration" in the truest sense of the word, and it is nice to see that I'm not alone. I have been in situations where at the slightest hint of Hollywood gold, people immediately show their true colors and started stabbing one another in the back. It was really quite comical to me. I'd love to be a lot more solvent, but money isn't that serious to me -- I will never screw others over to gain it.

I have been blessed/fortunate/lucky in a lot of ways, and I would like to share my good fortune with others. Who knows maybe we can help each other. Crazy thoughts - sharing and working together toward a larger goal. :)

I should add, my experience with crew surrounding LA seems pretty jaded though. Even for my strongest relationships (and I've known some people for a lot of years - so they know I am what I say I am), people do not want to do anything if there is not direct, immediate payment attached. The system has molded them well.

Best,

Eryc
 
I disagree...not everyone wants to make a film.. I don't. I just want to get paid to work on other peoples dreams. My dreams have nothing to do with film creation
 
you've got it Eryc!! Focus on the dream, the vision and the money will come. Our first major step was getting the money to afford the best camera on the market, a RED camera. One of the major keys is to look at your camera and all of it's features then use them to obtain that captured non limited beauty. We limit ourselves with doubt and listening to others about your vision and the main statement are that will never work, man how long before you shoot that movie, it was a great idea but, you should have done this and that. I tell people to release all of that and create that movie because you can't fail...you know why?? Glad you asked =) because you own the camera so we learn as we continue to make movies! Yes the people that likes or love your work is you fan base =) Forget everyone else, if you don't fail you...your project can't fail because step one is the idea, step 2 shoot it step 3 post step 4 present you to the world by what you created and stand behind it! open your mind to the people that will pick your movie apart and learn how to shoot it better but don't change your vision.I would love to work with others but these cats in Michigan have their heads up Hollywood's butt. now throw greed on top of that.
 
Brian your dreams has everything to do with film creations...why? If you are not focused on becoming the best at what you want to do for others how can you make your mark and people pass your name on to great film makers that trust in you and your abilities?
 
Brian Merlen said:
I disagree...not everyone wants to make a film.. I don't. I just want to get paid to work on other peoples dreams. My dreams have nothing to do with film creation
Click to expand...

Completely understand that. And a completely valid position to have. Like I stated, most working crew members do not seem to have a desire to be entrepreneurial.

However, even if your sole motivation is profit, there may be a way to earn even more dollars for yourself in the near future by participating on projects you believe in. Imagine if all the filmmakers agreed to share in the dividends, and their self-distributed Paranormal Activity saw a fraction of the success it saw for Paramount. A long shot under current conditions, sure.

But if there were a more definite way to monetize your offering, and the project went viral, all the artists involved would have been filthy rich...if that's what you need to motivate you. Yes it is a gamble. But so is driving to set for a day rate. I'm of the mind set that we can do both.

But don't partner with me...partner with someone better than me. Someone who already has a track record, someone you trust, and someone willing to sign a contract which outlines your ownership stake.

Just saying.
 
Tony Harris said:
you've got it Eryc!! Focus on the dream, the vision and the money will come. Our first major step was getting the money to afford the best camera on the market, a RED camera. One of the major keys is to look at your camera and all of it's features then use them to obtain that captured non limited beauty. We limit ourselves with doubt and listening to others about your vision and the main statement are that will never work, man how long before you shoot that movie, it was a great idea but, you should have done this and that. I tell people to release all of that and create that movie because you can't fail...you know why?? Glad you asked =) because you own the camera so we learn as we continue to make movies! Yes the people that likes or love your work is you fan base =) Forget everyone else, if you don't fail you...your project can't fail because step one is the idea, step 2 shoot it step 3 post step 4 present you to the world by what you created and stand behind it! open your mind to the people that will pick your movie apart and learn how to shoot it better but don't change your vision.I would love to work with others but these cats in Michigan have their heads up Hollywood's butt. now throw greed on top of that.
Click to expand...

Michigan. Ha. Hollywood is only separated by space. The people are the same -- motivated by whomever they think has the gold. And even that is starting to fall apart...how else do we explain VFX studios being bankrupted while the films they produced win awards? It's sad. We've been powerless to do much in light of the grand design, but finally the established design seems to be showing foundational cracks.

Apparently, you can release the shackles, but the masses will simply rush to put them back on.
 
You've got that right.=) This is the wild, wild west chasing the crumbs that Hollywood drop on their way through. I've told people about the hype but they didn't listen until now. Film makers and so called production teams came out of the wood works with no experience and they actually thought Hollywood crews and teams would pick them up. Clint Eastwood wouldn't even stop by our film school or allow Detroit actors on his set. HA!
 
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