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Help with GUNNER setup... (RED TEAM...?)

Peter Majtan

Peter Majtan

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Does anyone know (or can check) the spacing between the 19mm rods if I were to attach two of the 19mm SWAT RAIL CLAMPs to the opposite sides of the GUNNER?
Does it match the standard spacing on normal 19mm accessories?

products_primary_790-0170_Camera_Guide_Clamp_19mm2.jpg


x2 plus...

products_primary_190-0191_Gunner_Camera_Guide_Platform_1.jpg


Any insight would be much appreciated...

Cheers

:sifone: Peter
 
constantine Tirintzis said:
the proper 19mm spacing is 104mm center to center.
Click to expand...

I have quite a few 19mm accessories, but I am right now deciding between the GUNNER and a "custom" CLUTCH. If adding the 19mm SWAT RAIL CLAMPs to the GUNNER matches the standard spacing, I am going for the GUNNER. I just don't want to spend $2K to answer that question, I would like to know beforehand...

:sifone: Peter
 
(Disclaimer) this is my personal opinion: skip that Gunner and spring for a BT Clutch =) By the time you outfit it with everything you need and then some, youll spend way over 3250.00. Clutch is where its at! Just the Rails and 2 handles puts you over $2500
 
Chad Bonanno said:
(Disclaimer) this is my personal opinion: skip that Gunner and spring for a BT Clutch =) By the time you outfit it with everything you need and then some, youll spend way over 3250.00. Clutch is where its at! Just the Rails and 2 handles puts you over $2500
Click to expand...

I am using the clutch frequently (renting it out for now) and there are few things I do not like about it, such as the ball-joint handles (they do give away with heavier setups) and the chest pad. If I do go for the clutch - I will build my own and choose only the components I want - which is why I have used the word "custom" CLUTCH in my previous post.

However - this is for me about so much more. I do love the clutch - but I am not a huge fan of the QR system. As brilliant as it is and with amazing built quality - there is a small hickup that is overlooked even in the video on RED.com - yes, you can take the camera from the clutch and move it to a tripod in seconds with the QR system - but the matte-box with filters and any other accessories attached to the rails stays behind on the clutch - so while you have moved the camera with the lens to the tripod in seconds, you are still minutes away from being able to actually shoot. I want to have the camera as a monolith bonded with the rails and the matte-box, follow-focus (etc) - and then have a QR platform to quickly swap the "monolith" between hand-held, tripod, or any other setup. You could easily achieve this by using two QR platforms - but that becomes ridiculously expensive (your support alone is now close to the cost of a Scarlet brain), but more importantly it also "wastes some of the parts on the CLUTCH as you end up with dual rail system (one rail set on the CLUTCH and the other on the camera holding the MB, FF, etc...). Never mind the added weight to the system and the extra (unwanted) height...

So what I am thinking of doing is to take the GUNNER and attach two of the 19mm SWAT CLAMPs to the sides of the upper section of the GUNNER. Run two 19mm rods to which I will then mount the matte-box, follow focus and any other accessories. This is now attached with the screws directly to the bottom of the camera and serves as the "monolith". I then attach the QR platform to the bottom section of the GUNNER and have the FRONT HANDLE ASSEMBLY (but with the FIXED HANDLEs instead of the BALL-JOINT ones) on standby:

products_primary_Front_Handle.png


This could be quickly attached just in front of the MB, converting the GUNNER to hand-held mode in seconds. Ultimately this would be identical in function to the CLUTCH (you can easily add the chest-pad if you like it), but unlike the CLUTCH - it will facilitate a "true" and practical way of converting the camera between hand-held, tripod and any other setup in mare seconds without the need for re-mounting the MB, FF and other accessories mounted on the 19mm rails...
 
also my personal opinion; totally skip the gunner and go clutch (used or BT if it's a budget-question)!

the gunner would be cool if it were like double the size if you ask me…
the shoulder-base is somewhat narrow and slim and i miss the "stability" of a proper shoulder-rest.
to be honest I only tried it for a few minutes with a not personalized and not perfectly balanced setup on a roadshow so I'm pretty sure one can out-rig it a little better but in it's "standard/basic" setup it was not feeling as good as the clutch - it was feeling more like a toy; very lightweight tho to be fair - but somewhat like a toy, easily shaking around on my shoulder… That's how far my first impression goes, and the first impression of the clutch was a way better one :)

about the matte-box problem; do you need to go the 19 route ? i think with the 15 route (lightweight-rods) it's less of a problem to keep a matte-box attached to the camera… or do you need the 19 studio spacing for your existing gear ?
 
Peter Stelzhammer said:
also my personal opinion; totally skip the gunner and go clutch (used or BT if it's a budget-question)!

the gunner would be cool if it were like double the size if you ask me…
the shoulder-base is somewhat narrow and slim and i miss the "stability" of a proper shoulder-rest.
to be honest I only tried it for a few minutes with a not personalized and not perfectly balanced setup on a roadshow so I'm pretty sure one can out-rig it a little better but in it's "standard/basic" setup it was not feeling as good as the clutch - it was feeling more like a toy; very lightweight tho to be fair - but somewhat like a toy, easily shaking around on my shoulder… That's how far my first impression goes, and the first impression of the clutch was a way better one :)

about the matte-box problem; do you need to go the 19 route ? i think with the 15 route (lightweight-rods) it's less of a problem to keep a matte-box attached to the camera… or do you need the 19 studio spacing for your existing gear ?
Click to expand...

Yes, I need the 19mm for existing gear, plus I don't have the best experience with wireless motor clamps on 15mm. On top of that the 15mm QR plate interferes with the new front fan on the brain...

I actually love how lightweight and compact the GUNNER really is. And once you kit it properly with the handle extensions (the pic above does not show that the front assembly actually includes two extra straight dogbones) - it works just like the CLUTCH. I personally don't like the chest-pad. IMHO and based on my personal experience - you need the 3 points (two handles and the shoulder) free to assist with stabilizing the handheld shots. using the chest and back pads together does assist with the stability of the rig on your shoulder - but it also makes it that much more rigid. You lose the fluid motion of a well-balanced rig that reflects directly on the stability of the shots. Every time I rent the CLUTCH (only $50/day here in Japan) the first thing I do is to remove the chest pad. But to each their own - you can easily add the chest (and back) pad(s) to the GUNNER as well, turning it into a CLUTCH...

I love the modularity of the system and the fact that you can build your own configuration...

I just need to know if adding the two 19mm SWAT CLAMPs to the GUNNER matches the standard spacing. If not - I might build a custom bracket, or try to figure out some other combination of the RED accessories...

:sifone: Peter
 
Daniel Pearson said:
Interesting idea Peter - if you proceed could you please keep this thread updated with the process and your findings? Cheers!
Click to expand...

I am proceeding one way or another - I really need to find a light-weight compact, but sturdy solution that allows for super quick changes between hand-held, tripod and other setups without the need to re-mount the 19mm accessories. I have seen an individual with 3! QR platforms on his setup. It sure was flexible, but the size, weight and the cost was IMHO borderline ridiculous...

I will keep this thread posted with the (my personal) solution...

:sifone: Peter
 
Peter Majtan said:
On top of that the 15mm QR plate interferes with the new front fan on the brain...
Click to expand...
Do we really know that already? I mean the top-plate modification is needed, that's confirmed - but I'm still missing "100% valid" info for the front fan…

But ok, if you need to keep your 19 gear going 15 makes no sense (we're on 15 since day one since we don't do that much studio stuff so it's nor problem over here)…
 
Peter Stelzhammer said:
Do we really know that already? I mean the top-plate modification is needed, that's confirmed - but I'm still missing "100% valid" info for the front fan…

But ok, if you need to keep your 19 gear going 15 makes no sense (we're on 15 since day one since we don't do that much studio stuff so it's nor problem over here)…
Click to expand...

Most of the 15mm solutions I have used come super tight to the front of the brain, I doubt it would accommodate the new front fan. But You are right - there is no 100% confirmation on this.

But the front fan aside - I have two major issues with 15mm. A - it will add a secondary rail system to the configuration (as you would have another 19mm system on the CLUTCH) - I have had my set of nightmare scenarios where attaching and working with accessories on the two "levels" was not exactly straight forward to say the least. It also adds unnecessary weight to the whole setup by doubling the rails. B - 15mm is OK for accessories that attach to both rails at once - such as the MB and normal FF. But they are not practical for anything that attaches to just one rail - such as the motors of a wireless FF system. They slip much easier then a 19mm rod...

Ultimately I have already invested in some 19mm gear and have more ordered or on the way. So for better or worse - I am sticking with 19mm. Now I just need to find the most compact, light-weigth, sturdy and practical solution...

I miss being back in Laguna Beach - this would simply be a short trip to Lake Forrest and sit down with John, Brent, or any other of the amazing RED team guys and play around with all the bits and pieces to make this work. Might need to give a call to RED Japan / Seika - to see what they have in stock that is unpacked and I can play with...

:sifone: Peter
 
Hi Peter,

The center-to-center spacing between the SWAT RAIL CLAMP (19MM ROD) on both sides of the GUNNER is 104mm apart, which will work with our 19mm accessories such as the 19mm UNIVERSAL MOUNT. If you have any further questions please feel free to email me at chad-dot-k-at red-dot-com.

Chad Koeller
RED SUPPORT
 
Chad K said:
Hi Peter,

The center-to-center spacing between the SWAT RAIL CLAMP (19MM ROD) on both sides of the GUNNER is 104mm apart, which will work with our 19mm accessories such as the 19mm UNIVERSAL MOUNT. If you have any further questions please feel free to email me at chad-dot-k-at red-dot-com.

Chad Koeller
RED SUPPORT
Click to expand...

This is indeed an amazing news! Thank You so much Chad!
Now I am confident I can build super compact, versatile and practical solution. I will keep everyone posted...

:sifone: Peter
 
Peter Majtan said:
This is indeed an amazing news! Thank You so much Chad!
Now I am confident I can build super compact, versatile and practical solution. I will keep everyone posted...
Click to expand...
I like your idea, please don't forget to make some pictures. ;)
 
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