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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Power Distro MōVi to Epic?

Pretty soon this discussion is going to turn into "the D800 will kill Medium Format Digital Backs..."

MōVi... I'm getting one. Having played with it, I'm pretty sure I'll love it. I'm just trying to figure out how to power everything. You may have gleaned that from the thread title... Or not.
 
I'm with ya Christopher. Looking forward to hearing about your experience & rigging solutions. Have a few ideas of my own...
 
Christopher Barrett said:
Pretty soon this discussion is going to turn into "the D800 will kill Medium Format Digital Backs..."

MōVi... I'm getting one. Having played with it, I'm pretty sure I'll love it. I'm just trying to figure out how to power everything. You may have gleaned that from the thread title... Or not.
Click to expand...

I might have to come to Chicago to play with yours Chris.
 
Iam not against this device or anyone who likes it. In fact I like it too. But I cant come up here and not mention facts, and I chalenge anyone to prove my statements wrong.
there is 100s or pages of information about those devices for many years and also a few about the very same system, what it uses, and how.
Read for your self. Then come back tell me that Iam wrong. No problem.
and thats the last about this thing, it already got more attention than ever, nothing more to say.
good luck and have fun with it.
and dont forget that this is just a discussion board so people can see and judge from them selves from others experiences.
I my self following the gyrostabilised project for more than 5 years.
I have been playing with this technology starting in 1999. I have made various heads with the currently available sensors of the time back then.
Afterr 2002 I have decided to wait since all those sensors and boards are getting more and more clever and sofisticated.
But I cant come up here and say woauw, or come and say oh great price. There is a however a market and price point for this kinda project and for even higher more expensive price tags, BUT you dont convert a 1000 $ system, just changing a few 60$ rc motors , rewire them, tune it and call it a 15k system. Thats the only thing I dont agree. It has to be made accordingly to justify price.
As fior what it can do... it can do good shots , it can do special shots, and it can do crap shots , and just like any other system out there, it has limitations, and its up to the user to make it creative.
regards

ps about powering the cameraand this . You seem to have a lot of problem trying and figure this out. So here it is if you are looking in handheld, you dont need to pwer this from the rc battery, you are riscking a camera fealure and unless the company comes and give an official approvment about Lipos you will always have the chance to damage you camera.
So why is it so hard to you to just strap a battery belt, or even a battery on your body and just power th camera individually? you will not have to carry it with your hand, and you can also have a secure camera power source with out limiting any of the rotations, or action. Trying to put everything on the head is meaning less unless you want to fly it on a quadcopter or make shots that you hand it to many operators in line to do just one shot.
so dont risk your camera and do the right thing.Lipos do go wrong very often..
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Sorry guys- from the engineering stand point- this system need at least one more axis, preferably two- to be even close to steadicam setup
Click to expand...

No one on the thread has claimed that it's a steadicam replacement. It's a camera stabiliser and the steadicam is a camera stabiliser - what it does superbly is maintain a horizon which, IMO is a large aspect of what makes the steadicam so desireable. I don't mind a bit of left right up down in the shot - it gives it a very human feel (like in the Coachella running footage) where the steadicam is more 'omnicient narrator' and closer to a dolly. I think the MoVi is a nice compromise between handheld and camera stabilisation with less setup time than a jib or a dolly (or a steadicam arguably), and more range of movement than a steadicam.

Regarding the battery safety: it is a custom designed battery so I presume that it's made to spec for the Epic - I think it pretty unlikely that this technical hurdle is beyond the makers of this device.
 
Ok When you say custom do you mean just the correct number of Lipo elements to power with the correct voltage right> because on those packs thats all there is to it, so its hardly a custom solution, or its as custom as any battery can be powering a device.
But Iam afraid that this is not enough for secure power, specially when you are powering a 40k camera with warranty. Thats all. you can power the camera from a car battery as well no problem that doesnt mean that it s the correct power.
I just cant see why you guys are trying to put the battery on the rig since it makes it more heavy and there is absolutely no reason to do so with hand held. Maybe you should just look at the device of what it really is and how it works , instead of keep going with anything you see.
or you can just tell me what the benefit is and explaiin one possible reason. Its only being use in aerial that requires a battery on board. Nothing else needs this, and in the case of hheld its even worst carrying the load with your arm.
So unless you are planning on throwing the rig from one operator to another its pretty useless.
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Sorry guys- from the engineering stand point- this system need at least one more axis, preferably two- to be even close to steadicam setup
Click to expand...

I agree. It's a Steadicam gimbal with no arm - the arm serves a very important purpose. A good Steadicam op could dance circles around a Movi, for 99% of shots, 99% of shost in a normal narrative are nothing like Laforest's short. people who say a human arm can work like a Steadicam arm have no idea how to operate a Steadicam and have obviously never done so professionally.
 
Brett Harrison said:
Regarding the battery safety: it is a custom designed battery so I presume that it's made to spec for the Epic
Click to expand...

Are you sure about that? I had been researching about the battery used in all the MoVi demo videos and it looks like an off the shelf LiPo 4S battery. What I don't understand is that I'm pretty sure the MoVi LiPo solution voids the warranty of your RED camera but noone is talking about that? Did I miss something?
 
Nope you are correct, at least me dealing with Lipos for a long time in rc projects, this is just a lipo battery in the correct number of elements to power 14,4 dc.
Nothing else. If it voids the warranty? probably. is it dangerous? Lipos do go wrong very often, and depening on the make they can be worst or better. If they can damage your camera? Red should be able to provide the info as well as explaination and honnestly I think they should because there is not 1 manufacturer in the world making cameras that make their customers work only with the companys batteries. You should be able to use inside warranty ANY proffessional battery.
But they should certainly come here and explain why since they are the ones out of many that use that method being picky about batteries.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
I agree. It's a Steadicam gimbal with no arm - the arm serves a very important purpose. A good Steadicam op could dance circles around a Movi, for 99% of shots, 99% of shost in a normal narrative are nothing like Laforest's short. people who say a human arm can work like a Steadicam arm have no idea how to operate a Steadicam and have obviously never done so professionally.
Click to expand...

Robert, I am an engineer, designer and have been a steadicam operator for more than 14 years. Iam the one who says that the human arm can replace the spring arm, IN CERTAIN loads, not only that but it has a brain on its own YOUR BRAIN.
Before you come here accusing people how ignorant they are, its preety easy to find out your self. Hold a 5 kgr weight away from your body with your human arm and start jumping up and down . You will see for your self that gravity and your brain will keep the load more or less in the same height from your ground and resist your jumps. The gravity together with your brain working can do a preety good job.
its physics and try and be more knowledge-able next time you come and tell people how ignorant they are.
Last I also chalenge you to show us your knowledge in steadicam physice, arm designs, gimbals and technology, ANYTIME here or anywhere else.
get out of the BOX man. The least you can do is try being NOT so insulting.
You have started with amistake saing that te Movi is a steadicam gimbal with out an arm. 3 axis Nodal heads are nothing like a steadicam gimbal, apart of the fact that they allow movement in 3 axis. Steadicam gimbals are friction free, with an OFF oprical center offset for the Tilt and Roll Axis,and they are devices that Have NO BRAIN. they rely on the good construction and your ability to maintain horizon or any other axis in possition depending on how they are tuned to work dropping time, dynamic balance etc.
the movi has a brain on its own.it can maintain all 3 axis to resist error moves, and also you can direct it with the motors to aim at the target you wish with out distructing the gyros doing their job.
it can do that in a good degree, and it can do that arount its optical center or close.
So before you come here and talk the way you do, educate your selve, even if your are a steadi op, its always usefull, and it will make your life easier operating
btw this is not a steadicam comparisson, we just lay down facts and methods on how to produce a stabilised shot.
period, both devices have PROS and Cons.
regards
 
I agree a human arm does a pretty darn good job of keeping the camera smooth. The proof is in the handheld glidecams and steadicams.

What the steadicam arms do best at, especially the pro-gpi arms... Is booming with almost no effort to keep the camera at the level you want.



I am looking forward to getting my hands on a movi.
 
Mike McEntire said:
Was just on a gig with Brainfarm shooting Olympic athlete profiles for NBC. Tab from Movi came out and we did some really great work with the rig. Shots like circling the athlete starting at foot level to raising the camera over their head were IMHO easier to get then with a steadicam. For the high speed tracking shots the follow cam shooter could concentrate on their run and the operator got great framing. For sure a different tool for different shots. Once you start to use it the possibilities of unique shots become very apparent. Shot on an Epic with Canon glass. Camera was powered by the rig for 2 full days with no issues.
Click to expand...
Hi Mike,
Can you talk more about your experience with the Movi?
How was exposure and focus controlled?
How was monitoring managed?
How was everything powered?
Cheers
Wes
 
So...now that the debate about the merits of the MoVI are thankfully past, I thought I'd try to resurrect this thread & steer it back to Chris's original post...powering an Epic on a MoVI ;)

Were trying to sort out an AB side mount solution (as lipo is just a bit scary and want to keep the entire solution on gimbal/camera tray) & tried the view factor light top plate & light +1 kit w/ their pau-AB plate but regrettably the total width is about 2mm too wide for the M10 tray. The next solution we're working on is having a custom milled piece made to attach to that top plate & directly to the same battery plate without the intermediary plate, but of course the top plate + a top mounted bit + the height of the batt plate above its screw holes adds unnecessary height to the assembly. Trying to assess if getting this bit milled (at significant expense) is worth it.

Anyone sort AB side mount to camera yet? Any particularly light AB plates w short cable & extra p-tap solutions recommended?

Chris, what did you finally end up going with?

Thanks in advance...


PCG
 
PC Greene said:
So...now that the debate about the merits of the MoVI are thankfully past, I thought I'd try to resurrect this thread & steer it back to Chris's original post...powering an Epic on a MoVI ;)

Were trying to sort out an AB side mount solution (as lipo is just a bit scary and want to keep the entire solution on gimbal/camera tray) & tried the view factor light top plate & light +1 kit w/ their pau-AB plate but regrettably the total width is about 2mm too wide for the M10 tray. The next solution we're working on is having a custom milled piece made to attach to that top plate & directly to the same battery plate without the intermediary plate, but of course the top plate + a top mounted bit + the height of the batt plate above its screw holes adds unnecessary height to the assembly. Trying to assess if getting this bit milled (at significant expense) is worth it.

Anyone sort AB side mount to camera yet? Any particularly light AB plates w short cable & extra p-tap solutions recommended?

Chris, what did you finally end up going with?

Thanks in advance...


PCG
Click to expand...

I literally made someone something like this the other day. At the shop I work at, we have these green plates--not sure what brand, I'm trying to find them now, but very thin. I transplanted a VF APU-AB back onto it and milled a small groove on the bottom for the cable to [pass through. Then I just drilled two holes on the top that lined up with the spacing on the AB top plate. Took maybe 10 minutes.
 
That sounds perfect Andy. Would you be up for making one for me? Please PM me anytime...I just called you but understand its a holiday ;)

Thank you very much!


PCG
 
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