Sync Sound in Media Composer?

[Peter Moretti]

A friend of mine has wrapped shooting a feature using a Red One MX. Sound was recorded using an Aaton sound recorder. A timecode slate was used, and I believe the camera's and sound recorder's timecodes were synced.

My question is where is the best place to sync sound?

My options are RCX, MC, Premiere or Resolve Lite.

My friend needs files with synced sound that will play on his three year old Mac laptop, to see where he will need to shoot pickups. I was thinking he could download the Avid Codecs LE and watch DNxHD 36 transcodes instead of using a more taxing codec like H.264.

The editor they have lined up will be using Premiere, but he won't be available for about a month. And my friend needs the transcodes with synced sound now.

I'm working on a PC that has RCX, MC 6, CS 5.5 and Resolve Lite. So I'm wondering which program I should use to create DNxHD 36 transcodes with synced sound? And, ideally, it would be great if the editor could use the proxy files I create for his offline editing Premiere and be able to relink to the .R3D masters.

There is also a chance that I might do a rough cut in MC.

I've read in the past there is a reason to sync sound in MC over some other programs, but I'm not sure if that still applies.

Thank you so very much for any help or perspective you can offer on this!!

 

[MichaelP]

I prefer syncing in Media Composer if no other deliverables are required such as H.264 viewing copies and such. In this scenario I would use RCX to create native MOS MXF/DNxHD 36 and import BWF directly into Media Composer. Even though there is no film, I still create a 35mm film project to have the ability to sync down to the 1/4 frame. Once picture and sound are in MC, select ALL and select AutoSync. If there is a mix track with ISO, I usually just select the MIX track but MC gives me the ability to match frame back to the ISO tracks if needed during editorial. Also importing BWF directly gives me all the metadata from within the BWF whereas RCX gives me most if it.

You can create sync dailies in RCX as well, I just find the process faster in MC - but as mentioned, if you need viewing dailies for streaming, then doing it all in RCX might be better. I wish it put the BWF filename in it own column to make managing sound EDL's easier later.

CS7 will support DNxHD natively from what I understood at NAB - so sending over an AAF and the MXF media in theory would allow him to edit. DNxHD 36 on a FireWire drive to a 3 year old Mac will be fine. I do this all the time on my 2.5 year old MacBookPro.

I would also suggest reading this Avid whitepaper from an overall workflow perspective: http://www.avid.com/static/resource...era/digital_camera_workflow_whitepaper_us.pdf


Michael

 

[MichaelP]

also check out the sync audio workflow with RED in the video:
www.avid.com/red

It's about a third of the way in. The video is a bit old version wise, but many of the steps are still valid.

Michael

 

[Peter Moretti]

Thank you SO MUCH Michael!!

 

[Marc Wielage]

I prefer syncing in Media Composer if no other deliverables are required such as H.264 viewing copies and such.

The other reason to sync within Media Composer (or Final Cut or Premiere) is that you'll have the ability to export OMF's, which are necessary provided you do a separate sound mix in Pro Tools or the equivalent. Without this ability, it becomes much more of an effort to keep track of multitrack files and access the iso tracks in post.

 

[Peter Moretti]

Thanks Marc!

 

[Peter Moretti]

Just a follow up ?, is there any reason not to AMA link in MC and instead of making DNxHD 36 MXF transcodes with RCX?

I've tested both ways, and while I wouldn't want to be using AMA for editing, just using it to bring the .R3D's into MC, sync sound and export as DNxHD 36 seems okay, FWICT.

Alternatively, the RCX transcodes can be synced with audio and exported SOS, which is very fast.

One appealing thing about using AMA is that I don't have to copy files to the Avid MediaFiles folder and import the AAF. But I'm certainly open to hearing the pros and cons of using RCX vs MC 6 for the DNxHD transcoding.

Thanks much again!

 

[MichaelP]

My point of view - both workflows are valid but for me:

1. Source settings in Media Composer only expose a subset of the color metadata. But it does respect the RMD file, so that assumes that the files have been opened in RCX to give it the full desired settings as needed. This may vary from job to job.
2. Media Composer does not support HDRx if recorded that way. Only the A channel.
3. AMA wants to use the entire filename including the _001 whereas every other workflow just deals with the filename itself.
4. RCX puts filename in the TAPE column, whereas AMA puts it into Source File. Not a huge issue, but something to be aware of when making EDL's, relinking and such. Resolve and other systems using Avid AMT to make native media also put filename into TAPE. More if a consistency issue for me than anything else.

Other than that, the rest are just little personal things - If I use AMA it is to select and transcode and has the advantage of subclipping only the parts needed reducing the amount to transcode for jobs where they just let the camera record while they blab... When you transcode, the new master clip has a .new at the end. Again not a huge issue if you're going to rename the clips anyway. There are some interesting features in v7 that allow for transcode in the background, so in theory you could be syncing while transcoding in the background. The transcode in the background will give me what I do now with RCX which is let it transcode in the background while working in MC to sync and organize the previous batch. Also, RCX is free, Media Composer is $995 - if you already own it, then there is no additional cost, but if your a DIT/Data Wrangler, then it is something to consider.

Michael

 

[Job ter Burg]

One more difference: Resolve and RCX let you add burnins to transcodes. MC will not (but can track all metadata and display a lot of it using the Generator effects).

 

[Peter Moretti]

Thank you both very much!!

 

[Peter Moretti]

Well it's been going pretty well. Except I am starting to get the following error message:

* Exception: AUTO_TC_TROUBLE

But I can't figure out what's causing it. My only work around has been to select a subset of the BWF and MXF clips and tryin Autosyncing again. This divide and conquer approach works eventually, but it can get tedious.

Have you guys encountered this before? Any thoughts on what might be going on?

Thanks so much!!

 

[Marc Wielage]

My only work around has been to select a subset of the BWF and MXF clips and tryin Autosyncing again. This divide and conquer approach works eventually, but it can get tedious.

Can you just sync by hand, using a clap? Not to be obnoxious about it, but this is the way it's been done for the last 90 years or so, and it works very well. Without any trouble, on a nonlinear system, you can easily do 100 clips in an hour -- maybe 90 minutes if it's not timecode slates and there are no logs.

Many, many, many productions use assistant editors to sync up the material overnight, before the editor comes in in the morning. It's somewhat drudgerous work, but it's not as onerous as you might think, especially when you get experienced with it. Even in an autosync mode, I still check the sync claps on the possibility that timecode phase​ might be a little out, which will cause the camera to roll over to the next picture frame (or the previous frame).

 

[Peter Moretti]

Marc,

I have been manually syncing picture and sound when their timecodes don't match. What I'm encountering looks like either a bug in MC or some timecode issue that I'm overlooking. So I'm wondering if other people are familar with this error message and if they know a workaround (for which I'd be very appreciative).

 

[MichaelP]

Sounds like your audio timecodes have been hanging out with the wrong crowd... I have never come across this error message. After you get the error, is there more information in the console? Also, do not use SoundTC in Media Composer for tracking as it is hard-coded to 30fps (trying for years to get that changed), and if you are using that, perhaps that is the basis of the problem. Seeing as it counts as 30, the syncing process may be looking for a timecode that doesn't exist on the picture source and just reports it as bad. I'll see what I can dig up on what might cause that from an Avid engineer.

Michael

 

[Peter Moretti]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the reply. I'm defintely choosing Source Timecode. The Console Window only shows the error I posted, as I copied it from the Console Window:

* Exception: AUTO_TC_TROUBLE

Thanks for the heads up about SoundTC, will continue to steer clear of it.

 

[Job ter Burg]

Even in an autosync mode, I still check the sync claps

Same here. Perf Slip rules for that. Lets you adjust sync up to 1/4 frame.

 

[Peter Moretti]

BTW, I'm wondering how you guys would recommend handling a day whose sound was recorded at a significantly lower level?

One day a different sound mixer worked, and he recorded at about 8dB lower than what the regular sound mixer recorded at.

I know in MC I can choose to apply gain in the Import Settings, or I can choose to apply gain to the clips after they are imported into the bin by choosing Clip... Apply Gain.

My thinking is that applying gain during import is fater, but any induced clipping would require a reimport. While applying gain to the clips after they are imported into the bin adds an additional step, it makes recovering induced clipping easier by simply changing the clip's gain.

Is that the correct way to look at this? Thanks so much again guys!!

 

[MichaelP]

Still waiting to hear back from my Avid connections. Another question, if using START to sync - is there timecode all way through those clips if you scroll through? I've heard (and seen) some issues at times where the timecode drops out after some period of time. A quick check is t make sure all the clips have an END as well.

As far as gain levels, I guess I have never used those on dialog type clips, only to reduce levels on CD import. Hearing the difference in results from your description, I would choose the latter to have the flexibility to change it without clipping levels unless (haven't tried it) you can change "down" clips if they are clipped after the fact in case that is just a playback GAIN and not baked into the clip upon import.

Michael

 

[Marc Wielage]

I have been manually syncing picture and sound when their timecodes don't match. What I'm encountering looks like either a bug in MC or some timecode issue that I'm overlooking.

I have seen issues where you get an error message if the durations don't match between video clip and sound clip. Export an EDL and see if the durations are identical. The other possibility would be if the sound timecode frame rate is not the same as the video timecode frame rate.

 

[MichaelP]

The durations do not need to match as rarely, if ever, will they match in double system workflows. You can check durations directly in the bin with the "Duration" column. The latter could certainly be a problem, and I've read some issues when there are marks on some clips, and not on others.

Michael