HDLink Pro

[RivaiC]

Hi Guys

Does this unit :
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/hdlink/

HDLink Pro actually works for 3D Lut signal conversion ? I know the accuracy is less by 1 bit as opposed to Davio that is 5 bit. But i read from numerous report that this unit actually distorts the signal especially for those who use CMS. Some reports unhappy result.

I wondering about other people who use other color management system like calman or cinespace think about this unit ?

Does this actually works ?

Thanks
Rivai

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I have one and have used it for Linkcolor and Pomfort Livegrade. Steve Shaw at Light Illusion has brought up some issues with it when using LUTs loaded into it, for example as a calibration device for a monitor you have in the studio. For creative LUTs, it's fine. You may want to test the complete workflow for your purposes. Do some LUTs on set and then bring them through your post workflow to check accuracy, conversion issues, etc. Also make sure to keep track of full vs. legal range.

FYI, Pomfort Livegrade now supports Pluto devices.

 

[Tom.Wong]

i own 2, and use them with livegrade as well. but only for a on set dailies use. livegrade does a very good job handling the hdlink with the 3d lut conversion. my dailies line up perfectly every single time. but I'd be hard pressed to use it in a color suite environment when it comes to loading in film and p3 luts. something like livegrade and linkcolor made it very specific for it's use, when throwing it in a different situation, it might not behave as well.

the hdlink is a really interesting unit, BM made it, made a small utility for it, and stopped there and never really did anything more with it. it took third party vendors to really explore its full possibilities.

 

[Dustin Cross]

I use HDlink Pros onset with Live grade and they are great for that.


Dusty

 

[Steve Sherrick]

..I'd be hard pressed to use it in a color suite environment when it comes to loading in film and p3 luts...

Agreed. I would not use it for those purposes. Far better solutions out there for that.

 

[RivaiC]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I have to scrap this then. There is no other unit else apart from davio.

Rivai

 

[Mike Lary]

Agreed. I would not use it for those purposes. Far better solutions out there for that.

Steve, what is your preferred tool in the suite if you don't have a display capable of storing LUTs?

 

[RivaiC]

Steve, what is your preferred tool in the suite if you don't have a display capable of storing LUTs?

Im not Steve. But you are going to depend on Software based LUT instead of hardware. But you are in trouble if you jump to other software that cant load LUT, like Premiere

Rivai

 

[Mel Matsuoka]

Im not Steve. But you are going to depend on Software based LUT instead of hardware. But you are in trouble if you jump to other software that cant load LUT, like Premiere

Rivai

This is what I'm intending to do with Steve Shaw's Lightspace CMS with Davinci Resolve. Resolve can use a calibration LUT generated by Lightspace as a Display LUT, which is great, but of course Premiere and FCP doesn't have native, realtime display LUT capabilities. So my plan is to use Red Giant Software's "LUT Buddy" plugin to load in the 3D LUT from Lightspace, and render the calibration LUT into an FCP/Premiere sequence, just for preview purposes.

Kind of a hacky workflow, but in lieu of an outboard LUT box, it's probably the next best thing to spending big cabbage on a Davio unit.

I too purchased the HDLink Pro, based on BMD's promise that it could be used for accurate calibration through external LUT files, but ever since Steve's findings that it's pretty much useless for anything that requires color accuracy, it's now collecting dust on my shelf. Such a pity, and BMD doesnt seem very interested in supporting this product anymore, what with their newly aggressive–and ostensibly successful–Apple-like business & marketing model. I fear that they are spreading themselves too thin by focusing on headline-grabbing products like the free version of Resolve and the BMD Cinema Camera, which means important niche products like the HDLink get placed on the backburner.

 

[Dave Blackham]

Apparently BM undertook to fix the HD link. I hope this happens soon as its a good device or would be when its fixed.

 

[Mike Lary]

Im not Steve. But you are going to depend on Software based LUT instead of hardware. But you are in trouble if you jump to other software that cant load LUT, like Premiere

Rivai

Why choose software over another hardware solution aside from the HDLink Pro?

 

[RivaiC]

Why choose software over another hardware solution aside from the HDLink Pro?

Well, you can spend on $5000 Davio if you want to

 

[Mike Lary]

Well, you can spend on $5000 Davio if you want to

That's an important distinction to make. I was asking Steve to clarify which "far better solutions" he was referring to, not which alternatives exist at lower price ranges.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

That's an important distinction to make. I was asking Steve to clarify which "far better solutions" he was referring to, not which alternatives exist at lower price ranges.

I was referring to something like Pandora Pluto in combination with Cinespace or Lightspace.

 

[Paul Millot]

I was referring to something like Pandora Pluto in combination with Cinespace or Lightspace.

As decribed in the the product description you would get 4:2:2 output (SDI or HDMI). This is far from a replacement for the HDLink Pro 3D that we bought in several post houses in Belgium were I'm from.

But I see that info is now all over the post-production forums and it's a very bad advertisement for BMD.

I red on another forum (@ LightSpace Forum) that BMD would fix this after the IBC2012 but that news came with no warranty.

I hope they will bring us a firmware update to fix that soon. That would mean the BMD company is growing up and not just growing.

PM!

 

[Steve Sherrick]

As decribed in the the product description you would get 4:2:2 output (SDI or HDMI). This is far from a replacement for the HDLink Pro 3D that we bought in several post houses in Belgium were I'm from.

But I see that info is now all over the post-production forums and it's a very bad advertisement for BMD.

I red on another forum (@ LightSpace Forum) that BMD would fix this after the IBC2012 but that news came with no warranty.

I hope they will bring us a firmware update to fix that soon. That would mean the BMD company is growing up and not just growing.

PM!

Not sure what you mean. The output can be switched from 4:2:2 to 4:4:4. Here's the data from the manual in case you are wondering.

Inputs – 2 BNC connectors provided for 422 (A1) or 444 (A1+B2) signals. The Pluto self senses SD, HD or 3G and the frame rate of the incoming signal and switches the outputs accordingly. Pluto works with all industry standard frame rates. In 422 mode the Pluto can be used in “dual head mode” to allow separate signal processing of 2 x 422 signals.
Outputs – 2 BNC connectors provided for output. The output standard and frame rate will match that of the input. The output can be switched in the controls between 422 and 444 and will transcode as required. Pluto can also be used to convert from a 3G input to a dual stream 1.5G output.

 

[RivaiC]

Hi Steve

Whats the price when you bought it ?

Rivai

 

[Steve Shaw]

Unfortunately there has been no further response from BMD regarding fixing the HDlink Pro problems - no reply to any e-mails sent to them at all...

If you are using a HDMI based workflow for monitoring we have been testing the eeColor box from Entertainment Experience with success (on TV Legal range displays).
This could be an alternative. The box is aimed at the home cinema user, but we have integrated LightSpace CMS with the box (LUT format), and it does work.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[Elliott Balsley]

livegrade does a very good job handling the hdlink with the 3d lut conversion. my dailies line up perfectly every single time.

I've never used this, but I imagine the workflow would go like this: Apply a de-log LUT and make adjustments in LiveGrade, export a 3D LUT, then use that LUT on the raw footage during color grading. Tom, is this your process that you said matches what you saw live?
If that's the case then I guess the problem Steve Shaw pointed out is not a problem when using LiveGrade.

 

[Steve Shaw]

The test to see the error is a simple one.

Make a LUT external to the HDlink Pro.
Load the LUT into HDlink Pro (where the effect it has will be different).
Save the LUT back from the HDlink Pro and compare to the original LUT in the LUT generation software - it will be significantly different...

Steve