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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic lover shoots on Canon 1D C

At my age, I've learnt to be wary of certainty. Banding is not an issue for me since I shoot in gritty, textured spaces. 8-bit works fine as long as your grading is classicist; anything radical may be harder and the 'strain' may show. I doubt if I could have shot a personal portrait with a one-man crew on an Epic. The Canon 1D C is not a better camera; but it was perfect in this specific situation. Red does have an opportunity in this niche; it has a more consummate grip on the technology; I hope that is the next big-small surprise!
 
Rafeeq Ellias said:
At my age, I've learnt to be wary of certainty. Banding is not an issue for me since I shoot in gritty, textured spaces. 8-bit works fine as long as your grading is classicist; anything radical may be harder and the 'strain' may show. I doubt if I could have shot a personal portrait with a one-man crew on an Epic. The Canon 1D C is not a better camera; but it was perfect in this specific situation. Red does have an opportunity in this niche; it has a more consummate grip on the technology; I hope that is the next big-small surprise!
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No camera is universal. Every camera has it's weaknesses, including Epic. For 1D C 8 bit recording is a major weakness, aliasing and excessive rolling shutter are another. As long as you are aware of those issues, there is no reason why this camera can't create nice images. Just don't treat this camera like it's a film camera, because it's not. Do most of your image shaping in camera and don't rely on post to get you out of tight spaces, like you can with Epic or Alexa.
 
jake blackstone said:
No camera is universal. Every camera has it's weaknesses, including Epic. For 1D C 8 bit is a major weakness, aliasing and excessive rolling shutter are another. As long as you are aware of those issues, there is no reason why this camera can't create nice images. Just don't treat this camera like it's film camera, because it's not. Do most of your image shaping in camera and don't rely on post to get you out of tight spaces, like you can with Epic or Alexa.
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This.

I was a 1DC owner for a very short time, and to be honest, I do not consider it a Cinema EOS camera. The rolling shutter was horrendous in 4K mode, the aliasing was noticeable in the 1080 modes, and the quality didn't even measure up to my C100. I didn't keep the 1DC very long.
 
I can't say much about the 1DC since I haven't used one but having been stuck in the 8-bit world for a majority of my filmmaking shoots, the only problem I've ever had in grading is with anything red in the picture, gets pixelated immediately. As far as the 1DC's image, it always struck me as noisy even way back to the original NAB demo footage. Why Canon would opt for 8-bit in an increasingly RAW world I don't know.
 
jake blackstone said:
No camera is universal. Every camera has it's weaknesses, including Epic. For 1D C 8 bit recording is a major weakness, aliasing and excessive rolling shutter are another. As long as you are aware of those issues, there is no reason why this camera can't create nice images. Just don't treat this camera like it's a film camera, because it's not. Do most of your image shaping in camera and don't rely on post to get you out of tight spaces, like you can with Epic or Alexa.
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Did you have any chance to grade Nikon's D800/600 uncompressed 8-bit footage? It is a completely different story comparing to h.264/mjpeg. I've done amazing stuffs in Lustre.
 
Filip Orlandic said:
Did you have any chance to grade Nikon's D800/600 uncompressed 8-bit footage? It is a completely different story comparing to h.264/mjpeg. I've done amazing stuffs in Lustre.
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8 bit is 8 bit, regardless of compression. Can it sometimes look good? Yes, sometimes...
 
Rafeeq Ellias said:
A stills photographer who shot a feature on Red One and a commercial on Red Epic, I shot this test 'portrait' on the new Canon 1D C 4K straight without Canon Log. Then downsized for Vimeo. I know it's 8-bit, hasno high frame rates but is a very unintimidating camera. Missed Epic's raw files but pleasantly surprised at the quality. Feedback and debate most welcome. https://vimeo.com/61088951
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Your documentary skills are stellar. I loved your film. A very charming lead.
 
Sid Idris said:
i suppose anything that was captured to hdcam tape would be limited to 8-bit...
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Then I guess we should just continue shoot and grade 8 bit, because it was just wonderful artifact free experience. Even Sony recognized, that 8 bit was insufficient bit depth and introduced HDCam SR as a result. It's amazing, that in 2013 there is even a question about necessity to use higher bit depth for image acquisition. Red is just waisting their time going to 16 bit in Epic and Scarlet, right?
 
jake blackstone said:
Then I guess we should just continue shoot and grade 8 bit, because it was just wonderful artifact free experience. Even Sony recognized, that 8 bit was insufficient bit depth and introduced HDCam SR as a result. It's amazing, that in 2013 there is even a question about necessity to use higher bit depth for image acquisition. Red is just waisting their time going to 16 bit in Epic and Scarlet, right?
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Sure not. But when the difference is to make it or not to make it, it can be a necessity to go lower, yes.

8-bit acquisition has its limits but it is affordable, not a loser. In times of hard economy, it can put bread in a lot of tables ;)

E. :-)
 
PS

PS

In Ljubljana but especially in Zagreb and Belgrade, last October-November, I regretted myself the fact to use 4K stills (yes, stills) in the possible burst mode of a small and cheap GH series unit (to be used in a feature shot in DSLRs as motion picture shots through post), because no way to have a chance to shoot with a more expensive and complex intrusive capture device. But I did it only 'cause there's simply no this camera made, yet. The closest now is the 1DC.

To confound point-and-shoot cinema style as soccer mom shooting is a plain lame.

E. :-)
 
jake blackstone said:
Then I guess we should just continue shoot and grade 8 bit, because it was just wonderful artifact free experience. Even Sony recognized, that 8 bit was insufficient bit depth and introduced HDCam SR as a result. It's amazing, that in 2013 there is even a question about necessity to use higher bit depth for image acquisition. Red is just waisting their time going to 16 bit in Epic and Scarlet, right?
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Yes! You finally understand.
 
Emanuel A. said:
8-bit acquisition has its limits but it is affordable, not a loser. In times of hard economy, it can put bread in a lot of tables ;)

E. :-)
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At $12,000 a pop it's an affordable camera? What am I missing? You want affordable camera, get BMCC or better yet, BT Red MX.
 
Emanuel A. said:
In Ljubljana but especially in Zagreb and Belgrade, last October-November, I regretted myself the fact to use 4K stills (yes, stills) in the possible burst mode of a small and cheap GH series unit (to be used in a feature shot in DSLRs as motion picture shots through post), because no way to have a chance to shoot with a more expensive and complex intrusive capture device. But I did it only 'cause there's simply no this camera made, yet. The closest now is the 1DC.
E. :-)
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You was in Belgrade and You didn't call. Damn it man! :)
Btw your pm inbox is full.
 
jake blackstone said:
At $12,000 a pop it's an affordable camera? What am I missing?
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This:
Emanuel A. said:
no way to have a chance to shoot with a more expensive and complex intrusive capture device. But I did it only 'cause there's simply no this camera made, yet. The closest now is the 1DC.
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Also, 8 bits are not the main issue, compressed 8 bits + DSLR body compression efficiency are.
 
jake blackstone said:
Which films (A LOT) were done in 8 bit?
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A good portion of my commercial reel was finished in 8bit. Not small work either, mostly national spots. Maybe 30 of em.
Prefer not to work that way, but it happens and can be just fine. Just say'n
 
jake blackstone said:
No camera is universal. Every camera has it's weaknesses, including Epic. For 1D C 8 bit recording is a major weakness, aliasing and excessive rolling shutter are another. As long as you are aware of those issues, there is no reason why this camera can't create nice images. Just don't treat this camera like it's a film camera, because it's not. Do most of your image shaping in camera and don't rely on post to get you out of tight spaces, like you can with Epic or Alexa.
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Yep. Though to me the rolling shutter it the major killer on this one. Its wicked bad sometimes. Tough to right that one in post regardless of how many plugins you throw at it.
 
Paul Schneider said:
Yep. Though to me the rolling shutter it the major killer on this one. Its wicked bad sometimes. Tough to right that one in post regardless of how many plugins you throw at it.
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This was what shocked me the most about the 1DC. Was on a shoot with it, and the DP and Steadicam op both noticed it in the middle of a series of takes. We switched out of 4K to the 1080P mode, and it largely went away. After that, we shot most everything on the C100.
 
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