REMOTE TRIGGER ASSEMBLY

[Paul Schneider]

It seems very difficult for folks to come up with a wired trigger mechanism to start and stop the Epic & Scarlet...and honestly I don't know why this is so. I'm not a wiring expert, but it seems like if it were easy such traditionally normal production things would be readily available.

I would really love RED to save everyone the hassle. How about a nice small lemo to push button assembly for purchase on the RED site all wired up and ready to go. Something that can be mounted to whatever handle the user desires.

Seems so simple. Why doesn't such a thing exist?

 

[Christopher Barrett]

Well... there is this...

 

[Paul Schneider]

yes. there is that and it also requires you to purchase the WC B-BOX or similar. The total price of that ends up in the $500-600 area and none of it could be considered small or easily configured.

Red chose a lemo to control such things for a reason. Not sure why they don't create a small, efficient system of their own. Doesn't anyone else operate single handedly?

 

[Dave Weber]

Well I'm handy but no expert in electronics and I've made 2 start/stops for my epic. Total for each is about $20 in parts. It's not tough. Just follow the schematic provided in the epic manual. That plus the 3bnc cable from red and you're in!

 

[Paul Schneider]

you sir, are certainly much more of an electronics expert than I am then.

Mikael Lubtchansky sent me over a bit of an outline for how he did it, but it involved capacitors, diodes and things I am terrified of. ;-)

Do you perhaps have a parts list and/or would be willing to supply some basic instruction?
Also, I heard the latest firmware has disabled a few triggers folks have made. Have you heard or had any experience with this.

Sorry for the ignorance here, but honestly I can make/build and shoot nearly anything, but electricity has never been my forte.

 

[Andy Jarosz]

Hi Paul,

I'm the guy who invented the ProMote that Chris linked to earlier!

The reason you don't have a small simple remote for the Epic is because they require different kind of trigger from almost every other camera. This type of trigger requires the trigger to generate it's own voltage in order to start the camera.

It's totally possible to make a remote that has a direct-to-LEMO connection (we used to make them, mostly for the BBC) but the trigger itself will not be small because of that simple fact. You'll also be limited to a very short length of cable. I chose BNC for the ProMote because it's something almost everyone already had, along with a sync cable, and it supports very, very long runs.

If you shoot me an email I'd be willing to help you make your own if you're still set in making your own. However, I must warn you, if, as you say, electricity is not your forte, I would advise against this. We're talking about a $50,000 motion picture camera that costs thousands in repair costs when it breaks.

The cheapest setup for our products is the sync cable and ProMote. If you own an Origo or Canon remote, our Iceberg allows you to use it with the Epic, but the Iceberg is a bit more expensive.

EDIT: Also wanted to mention, if size is a concern, the ProMote fits in the palm of most people's hands. For a sense of scale.

 

[Paul Schneider]

Hi Andy,

We've actually been in touch before regarding the Promote.
I'm still considering it, but I'm really trying to keep things very small and literally direct to a handle for start/stop. The idea of getting a B-Box or similar also seemed a bit of overkill for me...though probably not a bad idea for general production purposes.

What I want to do is have one trigger for my Mantis rig with a button that goes directly on the handle (Origo style). I am also looking into Aaton style handles that have the same tigger config for more compact handheld situations. Mike Sutton at RULE may have this worked out (as does AbelCine) but I'd still like to understand whats possible.

I completely understand the BNC. Its simpler...and I like the PROMOTE a lot. Though I don't need long runs and I guess I'm just a bit specific on exactly how and where I want the handle triggers. Ergo is huge for me and I want my right hand on the grip with control of the electronics and my left hand on the lens.

On my bigger shoots everything is AC's and Preston's, but lately I've been on my own a lot and need total control.

Thank you very much for your response. May give you a shout about this during the week if thats ok...and don't worry, I won't be wrecking my cam anytime soon. ;-)

Finally. Have we worked together? I used to live in Chi and occasionally shot there. Martin Ahlgren is my regular DP.

 

[Paul Schneider]

Hi Paul,

I'm the guy who invented the ProMote that Chris linked to earlier!

The reason you don't have a small simple remote for the Epic is because they require different kind of trigger from almost every other camera. This type of trigger requires the trigger to generate it's own voltage in order to start the camera.

It's totally possible to make a remote that has a direct-to-LEMO connection (we used to make them, mostly for the BBC) but the trigger itself will not be small because of that simple fact. You'll also be limited to a very short length of cable. I chose BNC for the ProMote because it's something almost everyone already had, along with a sync cable, and it supports very, very long runs.

If you shoot me an email I'd be willing to help you make your own if you're still set in making your own. However, I must warn you, if, as you say, electricity is not your forte, I would advise against this. We're talking about a $50,000 motion picture camera that costs thousands in repair costs when it breaks.

The cheapest setup for our products is the sync cable and ProMote. If you own an Origo or Canon remote, our Iceberg allows you to use it with the Epic, but the Iceberg is a bit more expensive.

EDIT: Also wanted to mention, if size is a concern, the ProMote fits in the palm of most people's hands. For a sense of scale.

ICEBERG looks sweet. Question. If I was to get something like that how difficult would it be to make a custom bnc trigger. I assume there is a battery issue.

 

[Andy Jarosz]

Hi Paul,

I knew your name sounded familiar! I am open to building you a special ProMote with a direct-to-LEMO connection, contact me.

With the Iceberg, building a trigger becomes much simpler. The remote can be a simple "dumb" switch that just closes two contacts, meaning it can also be very small.

The only power issue is that you'll need to power the Iceberg externally, however it's current draw is so low that you won't notice any loss of battery life.

Finally, we're working with Ergocine.com to integrate an Epic remote into their nice wooden handles.

I don't believe we've had the pleasure of working together, but shoot me a call if you're working in Chicago!

 

[Paul Schneider]

Thanks Andy.
I'll give you a call early in the week to discuss.

 

[Erich Roland]

Finally, we're working with Ergocine.com to integrate an Epic remote into their nice wooden handles.

This is a huge needs guys. Put me down as a buyer when you have this sorted. Why camera makers don't get this need on day 2 of figuring what accessories are required to build is befuddling to me. Please also design this wood-handle mounted start/stop trigger work with C-300, F3/F5, 5d.... etc.

Thanks, Erich

 

[Paul Schneider]

This is a huge needs guys. Put me down as a buyer when you have this sorted. Why camera makers don't get this need on day 2 of figuring what accessories are required to build is befuddling to me. Please also design this wood-handle mounted start/stop trigger work with C-300, F3/F5, 5d.... etc.

Thanks, Erich

The Canon & Sony cams are actually fairly standard in the way they require their triggers to activate and there are already a few options out there. I believe the requirements for EPIC/SCARLET are unique, not only with respect to the lemo connectors but also that they require self power to make them work correctly.

While you will have a much easier time finding a trigger for other cameras, RED is also a bit of a moving target. Folks I know who have made them suddenly have them stop working due to firmware changes. Not sure why this is, or why this particular system was designed, but I think it may be difficult to have a singular trigger work for all options.

Andy at Madlyfins seems to have one of the only solutions out there for purchase. It would be great if RED would make one of these, but it appears that won't happen. It's a pretty large oversight for me as well.

 

[Florian Stadler]

With the Pro IO module you get the standard lemo remote trigger.

 

[Frank Martin]

With the Pro I/O the Viewfactor Origio works great. Tiny and goes right on your sidehandle.

 

[Paul Schneider]

With the Pro I/O the Viewfactor Origio works great. Tiny and goes right on your sidehandle.

Thats excellent. However, the pro I/O module is $3750 and also unavailable at the moment. It also makes the camera footprint considerably larger.

I'm glad it exists, however the price far exceeds what's required when all I really need is a trigger for single person handheld usage.

As cool as the feature set on this module is, I think its overkill. Most folks won't use it all...and while I don't consider myself the biggest "pro", I'm still shooting some well-heeled national commercials and promos every month without most of what it offers.

For less than a quarter of the price you can get most of what you need with WC A & B-Boxes or the Madlyfins ICEBERG...making the system truly modular & scaleable. Again, nice product, but a clean, simple, triggered handle is something many RED customers want.

 

[Paul Schneider]

With the Pro I/O the Viewfactor Origio works great. Tiny and goes right on your sidehandle.

Question. Do they even make the Origo anymore? Saw on their blog that they have a wireless version coming out sometime in the future designed to work alongside a REDMOTE, but they are notoriously slow to deliver on their electronic products so I'm not sure if such a thing will see the light of day anytime soon.

 

[Jason Wingrove]

Origos and buttons on boxes are not what's missing here. What we needed all along was something nearly all digital cinema and film cameras have come with since before the earth cooled.. A trigger handgrip. Glad we're finally getting that solution from 3rd parties but it would have been easier and arrived much sooner without non standard plugs and wiring methodologies

 

[Paul Schneider]

Origos and buttons on boxes are not what's missing here. What we needed all along was something nearly all digital cinema and film cameras have come with since before the earth cooled.. A trigger handgrip. Glad we're finally getting that solution from 3rd parties but it would have been easier and arrived much sooner without non standard plugs and wiring methodologies

agreed. obviously.

making accepted conventions and workflows proprietary will make you a bit of cash in the short run...but it won't make many friends over the long haul.