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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Editorial promotion for Männer (Germany). Scarlet.

R

Richard Gerst

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Just played around and shot about 15 min footage in between my Canon stills for this editorial.

I used prime Canon glass here and natural light and just comped together a little promo video to play with footage on the Scarlet with CS6PPro.
shot 3k handheld and with tripod.

Honestly- I cannot wait to start working more with the new sensor etc.
I think RED will revolutionize the fashion industry.

Just thought I would share.
http://vimeo.com/50541777

RG
 
I shot this all 3k at 48fps for a 24p timeline.
initial grading in Redcine, final tweaks done quickly (obviously since there are color shifts) in Premiere Pro.
a bit of the footage was cropped- and honestly I couldnt see this for web delivery, except one portion of one cut-

the is the first video I have shot outside of some dVX-100a and sony handycam work in 2005, so I was pretty psyched about the ability to shoot with such dynamic range and so much resolution . . . . Just freakin incredible. Love RED!
 
I did not use black shade cal.
And i shot those inside shots with no extra light whatsoever.
typically for print stills I shoot at minimum 2000 ISO unless I am shooting wide open-
I think I had the Scarlet at 800.
I often shoot natural light in less than ideal conditions.
a reflector on his face outside would have also helped with the shadows . . .
 
Richard Gerst said:
I did not use black shade cal.
And i shot those inside shots with no extra light whatsoever....
a reflector on his face outside would have also helped with the shadows . . .
Click to expand...
I liked the grainy look on that inside shot with the natural light, gave it a bit of a old school/new school look that I think really worked. [i bet if you flipped that indoor section to have 0 saturation, would have a great 16mm feel]
 
Thanks Patrick. Me too.
I have a continuous I could have bounced from behind me to probably bring in less noise . . . now not so sure about my choices with the other black shade cal question . . .
hmmm . . .
something to investigate next time.
 
Actually, Richard you answered the question.. It amazes me how people dont recognize the importance of black shading on red sensors.. The noise that is visible could have been eliminated entirely if you has black shaded.. Its really important to black shade each time you begin shooting and then any time the camera cools down.. Red doesnt tell you, but the sensor has to be warmed before shading .. Our procedure is to bring cam temp up to at least 60 by recording continuously for about ten minutes so temp comes up quickly.. we then cool down to normal op temp, 39 to 43, and then shade.. And certainly in low light situations you want to rate iso at 320 so when you push iso up to 800/1600 there wont be noise in the blacks, or even worse as in your footage, noise everywhere... The whole point of shooting raw is so you have flexibility to manipulate your files.. It does no good to limit that flexibility by not calibrating properly.. RED is amazing but if you dont calibrate correctly every time, you are screwing yourself later... The noise does not closely resemble film grain, which is black, not blue. Noise is blueish in tint.. Shoot clean, add grain in post....
 
Thanks Nathaniel-
this is one of the precise reasons why I have joined this forum.
much appreciated.

R
 
I'm sure Nathaniel's method of black shading is great, but I don't think most people do it that often, I know I don't.
RED recommends black shading if you shoot at ambient temperatures that are different from what the camera was factory calibrated at (or from your last calibration), especially if it's in a cold environment, or when you shoot at slow slow shutter speeds.

Definitely Need to let the camera warm up before shooting for 10 minutes or whatever.
A handy way of checking to see if the sensor has come up to temperature is this. If you are in a similar temp to what the cam was calibrated in then turn on the camera with lense cap on and turn ISO all the way up to 12500 and you can see noise pattern heavily on the right of the screen. Leave the camera running and watch, as the sensor warms up the noise will even out across the screen, when it's perfectly even it's good to go. If it doesn't even out in 10 minutes or so then you definitely need a black shade.

Anyway that's my thoughts on the subject. I know there are huge threads on the subject :)
 
Cool thing about the new 4.0 beta build is that it tells you if your black shading is off, and if you need to redo it. It's also a bit quicker on blackshading, and the interface is nicer. I btw would wait till the next build on 4.0 if i was new to RED, it will take a couple of rev's for this 4.0 version to be stable.
 
ok- this is all helpful, and I thank everyone.

I was shooting typically in 30-90 second intervals in between stills . . . no time for sensor warming whatsoever -
I am used to stills and shooting and moving very, very quickly.

i think the actual longest time I gave to the Scarlet was maybe 4 or 5 min, where I shot perhaps four 60 sec clips quickly in a row for a specific look- and that clip set actually never made it into the final edit because I didn't like it.

I DID add several layers of post processing in post on this project including film stock if I recall - I did not want the clean digital look for this, and have been shooting more and more film for stills recently as well ( a bit backwards, I know)

i think based on replies what we may be seeing here is a combination of:
true noise from my own technical issues (no black shading, high iso and lack of light, no sensor warm up)
compression artefact as I shot I think 7:1 or 9:1 with the lack of light- I did this since I would be editing on a 2 year old iMac (it handled it beautifully- easier than editing h.264 from my 5d II a few months back!),
and maybe even slightly more compression artifact becoming more obvious throughout from compressing from 3k to web, because the original footage looks substantially cleaner to me (I would have to pull a still and put it side by side)

but these types of things I will need to address as I step it up,
again- thanks . . .

I will also continue to check out the other threads . . .

rg
 
Nathaniel Kramer said:
Actually, Richard you answered the question.. It amazes me how people dont recognize the importance of black shading on red sensors.. The noise that is visible could have been eliminated entirely if you has black shaded.. Its really important to black shade each time you begin shooting and then any time the camera cools down.. Red doesnt tell you, but the sensor has to be warmed before shading .. Our procedure is to bring cam temp up to at least 60 by recording continuously for about ten minutes so temp comes up quickly.. we then cool down to normal op temp, 39 to 43, and then shade.. And certainly in low light situations you want to rate iso at 320 so when you push iso up to 800/1600 there wont be noise in the blacks, or even worse as in your footage, noise everywhere... The whole point of shooting raw is so you have flexibility to manipulate your files.. It does no good to limit that flexibility by not calibrating properly.. RED is amazing but if you dont calibrate correctly every time, you are screwing yourself later... The noise does not closely resemble film grain, which is black, not blue. Noise is blueish in tint.. Shoot clean, add grain in post....
Click to expand...

Nathaniel, thx for giving us info on black shading - It is not rocket science, but the lack of practical documentation (white paper?) makes it a bit more mysterious for new RED owners like me. Anyway, already pasted your post and will tag in my forehead every time I go shooting. :blush:
 
Nathaniel Kramer said:
Actually, Richard you answered the question.. It amazes me how people dont recognize the importance of black shading on red sensors.. The noise that is visible could have been eliminated entirely if you has black shaded.. Its really important to black shade each time you begin shooting and then any time the camera cools down.. Red doesnt tell you, but the sensor has to be warmed before shading .. Our procedure is to bring cam temp up to at least 60 by recording continuously for about ten minutes so temp comes up quickly.. we then cool down to normal op temp, 39 to 43, and then shade.. And certainly in low light situations you want to rate iso at 320 so when you push iso up to 800/1600 there wont be noise in the blacks, or even worse as in your footage, noise everywhere... The whole point of shooting raw is so you have flexibility to manipulate your files.. It does no good to limit that flexibility by not calibrating properly.. RED is amazing but if you dont calibrate correctly every time, you are screwing yourself later... The noise does not closely resemble film grain, which is black, not blue. Noise is blueish in tint.. Shoot clean, add grain in post....
Click to expand...

Nathaniel
Are you saying you shade after you have gone through your warmup steps say at 320 in low light situation in general and then shoot at 800 or shoot at RAW 320 and post in a higher iso if needed for light or effect?
Thanks
 
Russ,
Yes basically that is what i am saying.. we always rate 320. There is also a shcool here who will say 800.. They worry about clipping the whites, but I worry about noise in the blacks, because you really cant clean it up.. So if you have a noise free image, you will have no problem in red cine x to push your iso to 800, and probably 1200.. At 1600 you will begin to start seeing noticeable noise.
 
Nathaniel Kramer said:
Russ,
Yes basically that is what i am saying.. we always rate 320. There is also a shcool here who will say 800.. They worry about clipping the whites, but I worry about noise in the blacks, because you really cant clean it up.. So if you have a noise free image, you will have no problem in red cine x to push your iso to 800, and probably 1200.. At 1600 you will begin to start seeing noticeable noise.
Click to expand...

Interesting....I am quietly in your school, even though I'm sure many would disagree. We were shooting at 800 and were getting a bit of noise, but recently switched to 320 and everything came out sick. We were very aware of our highlights though...
 
Nathaniel Kramer said:
Russ,
Yes basically that is what i am saying.. we always rate 320. There is also a shcool here who will say 800.. They worry about clipping the whites, but I worry about noise in the blacks, because you really cant clean it up.. So if you have a noise free image, you will have no problem in red cine x to push your iso to 800, and probably 1200.. At 1600 you will begin to start seeing noticeable noise.
Click to expand...


That is precisely how I did it in my low light situation-
shot at 800 for highlights, and in fact exposed slightly under.
then I corrected in post-

hence the excessive noise.

thanks Nathaniel.
 
Thanks Nathaniel, I have been a big fan of the 800 for a long time but now find my self shooting 320 more and more. It seems to me that when I post in RCX I end up using REDfilmLog and by the time I go through the usual adjustments the 320 gives a much richer better looking image that if I were to shoot at 800 and do the same with the REDfilmlog process.
 
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