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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDray Projector..

Good on you, so are we talking about NAB again. Hope it is 8k now for the same price, that is what we need. 4K for 4k, or 2, would be cool though.

BTW special go pro hero 3 doing 4k at 12fps. Better tell Ted that the competition is catching up, bottom up, and they need to move schedules in a different direction :-)
 
Wayne Morellini said:
Good on you, so are we talking about NAB again. Hope it is 8k now for the same price, that is what we need. 4K for 4k, or 2, would be cool though.

BTW special go pro hero 3 doing 4k at 12fps. Better tell Ted that the competition is catching up, bottom up, and they need to move schedules in a different direction :-)
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First, are you going to have this in your home or in a large theatre? 4K is right on the point where people can't see any sharper in a large theatre, let alone in someones home/office. Why would you want 8K? Double the processing power, double the storage, double the bandwidth etc.
I don't want 8K for same price, in this case I would want 4K for a lower price.

And comparing gopro to red? What about the color space, RAW etc.? There are more things at play then resolution that is far more important.

I would like to know the final price of this, if there's a lens in front of it, then isn't that gonna cost a fortune? What is the final package for "up and running"?
 
True, I don't think you gain much by going to 8K for theaters because to get close enough to the screen to see the difference the angle of view would be so wide you'd get whiplash trying to watch. Now fine art is another matter.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
First, are you going to have this in your home or in a large theatre? 4K is right on the point where people can't see any sharper in a large theatre, let alone in someones home/office. Why would you want 8K? Double the processing power, double the storage, double the bandwidth etc.
I don't want 8K for same price, in this case I would want 4K for a lower price.

And comparing gopro to red? What about the color space, RAW etc.? There are more things at play then resolution that is far more important.

I would like to know the final price of this, if there's a lens in front of it, then isn't that gonna cost a fortune? What is the final package for "up and running"?
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Just to be clear, 8k is FOUR times more data and CPU overhead than 4k. The same way 4k is four times 2k.
 
Frank Cueto said:
Just to be clear, 8k is FOUR times more data and CPU overhead than 4k. The same way 4k is four times 2k.
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Yes, you are correct and you made my point even more valid :)
 
Christoffer Glans said:
First, are you going to have this in your home or in a large theatre? 4K is right on the point where people can't see any sharper in a large theatre, let alone in someones home/office. Why would you want 8K? Double the processing power, double the storage, double the bandwidth etc.
I don't want 8K for same price, in this case I would want 4K for a lower price.

And comparing gopro to red? What about the color space, RAW etc.? There are more things at play then resolution that is far more important.

I would like to know the final price of this, if there's a lens in front of it, then isn't that gonna cost a fortune? What is the final package for "up and running"?
Click to expand...

Really, than what is the 2400dpi limit of human vision? But for presentation and special effects shows, like laser shows now are, the 8k TV resolution is far better. Once people start regarding 4k as inferior, I maybe one of the few still using it, because it is only good enough. A lot of people don't realise how little bandwidth 8k is, or are self obsessed about their own little nitch of the market, rather than a manufacturer's ability to sell to wider audiences.

Go pro owns cineform, the superior codec behind the si camera is being pushed as a standard, and David Newman was showing off the gopro cine mode earlier. The upcoming sensir tech we will see even in consumer, is likely to be far superior to what we have now. Lots of potential there. At the moment 4k 12fps is a bit of a joke, I know, but red depends on the people that might buy this bmc or even Apertus, to make up numbers which affects manufacturing scarlet costs. So, it is a little bit of a joke, but the push is on for cheap 4k pocket cameras. So, imagine what the pro side is going to be like.
 
Everything will always be superior in coming technology, that's nothing new, but when discussing coming technology there's always this over the top optimism of the world of tomorrow. What technology that's going to be released always depends on public demand. There is a clearer difference between SD to HD so that improvement to consumers is easier to sell then HD to UHD. We, who walk and talk technology will not drive the market, we can dream of the future, but if the consumer doesn't give a damn about the difference between HD and UHD, then it's not gonna happen, period.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Everything will always be superior in coming technology, that's nothing new, but when discussing coming technology there's always this over the top optimism of the world of tomorrow. What technology that's going to be released always depends on public demand. There is a clearer difference between SD to HD so that improvement to consumers is easier to sell then HD to UHD. We, who walk and talk technology will not drive the market, we can dream of the future, but if the consumer doesn't give a damn about the difference between HD and UHD, then it's not gonna happen, period.
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Yes and no, a significant proportion of people who own HD TVs don't give a damn about HD content. I know a BAFTA member who judges films on HD TVs but recieves the DVD version as she has no bluray, despite the fact that all 3 TVs in the house are full HD. Far from the only person I know with multiple large screen HD TVs who couldn't give a damn about HD delivery.

I could sell the REDRay player to quite a few friends and family, most of whom would want it for its being tied into cinema distribution rather than Resolution.

Pleanty of tech succeeds for reasons other than what it's investors perceive to be its main selling point. Some even survives because its built into other tech that people want.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Everything will always be superior in coming technology, that's nothing new, but when discussing coming technology there's always this over the top optimism of the world of tomorrow. What technology that's going to be released always depends on public demand. There is a clearer difference between SD to HD so that improvement to consumers is easier to sell then HD to UHD. We, who walk and talk technology will not drive the market, we can dream of the future, but if the consumer doesn't give a damn about the difference between HD and UHD, then it's not gonna happen, period.
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Got to agree with that. Consumers need to see something they want, and can afford. I am hoping for a synergistic combination of emerging technology: better sensors to create better content to be processed better and projected better than ever. I think the 4K skills and technology that are developing should help make this more visible to the public, which should help drive it along. But it could use a push and I think many on this forum could help by shooting more compelling demo content. More on that here: "Can Dragon shoot more persuasive 4K eye candy?" http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...vs-65mm-film&p=1122579&viewfull=1#post1122579
and
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...sponse-to-4K&p=1123737&viewfull=1#post1123737

Rob McD.
 
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I know laser projection is challenging. For competitive reasons, earlier is better, but for reliability and a solid product, too soon is bad. They may also be concerned about tipping their hand too much. As a former Sony guy, [not a Sony spy :-) ] I have had to sit quietly at times when I wanted to be jumping up and down and telling everything I knew. Sometimes, though, I could hint a bit. Just to whet the appetite and help generate some buzz.

I am hungry already, but...Any more hints, Stuart?
 
The projector is the red product I'm most interested in because it feels like the best long term investment. Think of the BlackMagic Cinema Camera which shoots 2.5K RAW for under 4000 USD, technology is getting cheaper and cheaper and 4K full 35mm frame will soon be very cheap. Track back the cost of the quality you get and before Red, 4K was so expensive that it's nothing strange no one saw it as justified. Now track forward and you will see the exponential decrease in price for that technology. But even if screens and projectors gets cheaper the 4K laser projector that Red will release is so good (on paper) that it's not something that needs replacement for a long time. What type of new resolution or specs will come to consumer technology in the future? I don't see how you could do something better then laser 4K with passive 3D. There won't be a distribution format better then UHD for a very long time and even if more resolution comes along it will be so hard to sell that it's more of a loss then a gain for the film industry to do it. If Bluray is hard enough to sell on a mass scale, imagine a UHD format distribution. Not every one in the general public is a cinephile, far from it.

So, the projector is something that I see as the "final" chapter for regular film viewing (although colors and dynamic range will continue to get better). I feel it's the final because the next step is VR, eye-projected images and holographic viewing and that is a whole other chapter in the human history of moving images.

For investors to really find a gain in further technological advancement in moving images it needs to be about something else then resolution, I garantuee it. 8K will never happen, if 1080p is hard enough to sell on a mass scale it clearly shows that 8K is never going to happen (not speaking cinema resolutions) for consumers. Better use of bandwidth will revolve around better colors and dynamic range and 3D.

Another factor to talk about is video games. They had a huge impact on selling displays, PS3 had 1080p and that drove more people to buy full HD TV's then the film industry did.
PS4 is said to enable games to be played in 4K but the more resolution the less advanced graphics and what happened with PS3 was that most developers set the resolution to 720p instead to increase the advanced rendering and DX9 features. So the first games had anti-aliased 1080p and now most have aliased 720p instead.

So, even though PS4 will be able to show 4K, I think that most games will use 2K or 1080p with more and more advanced 3D technology and shaders.

So, of all the Red products I think this projector will have the best technology for it's price. It will be used for many years while cameras are getting both cheaper and better. I have tried to find a justified need to buy myself a Scarlet, but I never find it, I rent when I need it and I know enough about it to handle it without sweat, so I don't need to own one, not for it's current price. A 4K Laser projector on the other hand is something I would use all the time, watching movies, playing games and if good enough, doing grading and editing work on. And how can I watch my own 4K stuff if I don't have a projector?

So I'm currently keeping a constant eye on reduser to see if there are any news about the projector because it's THE thing I'm looking forward to the most. Dragon is all good, but we mostly know what coming sensor technology can do, more latitude, better colors, more resolution, higher framerate. But watching a 4K movie in 3D on Red's projector is something I have never done.

So I hope Red isn't holding back on news about it, it's on top of my list.
 
Feels like the projector is scrapped? It was one of the biggest things coming out of NAB 2012, now it feels like it's gone from the world map?
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Feels like the projector is scrapped? It was one of the biggest things coming out of NAB 2012, now it feels like it's gone from the world map?
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Or just taking a long time. RED have said they are trying to keep this NAB for Now, so anything that's uncertain on when its ready is going to get limited coverage.
 
That means that it's better to invest in other technology at this time I persume? If it's not "on the map" at this time, then it will probably be ready late 2014 at earliest.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
That means that it's better to invest in other technology at this time I persume? If it's not "on the map" at this time, then it will probably be ready late 2014 at earliest.
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Who knows, heard something about summer allegedly mentioned earlier this year in connection with the projector. Plus there are still a few days of NAB so more hints are possible.

After all Scarlet Dragon had pratically been declared dead in the water last December, with RED saying it was looking to pricy to happen and has risen again.
 
Peter Proniewicz-Brooks said:
Or just taking a long time. RED have said they are trying to keep this NAB for Now, so anything that's uncertain on when its ready is going to get limited coverage.
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In response to a direct question, Jarred recently said the projector was NOT dead, but was slightly back-burnered; Red Ray had to come first.

Mike
 
Its not going to happen this year or next. I have posted the reasons over and over. When Red says slightly back burnered, its like an 18 year old saying he only has a short time left until he becomes 21. So the Red loyalists can wait and wait to get a 4K projector. No problem for anybody. Yes sir. But when it comes it will surely be the best.
 
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