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Color grading and calibration

A

Alex De Vivo

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Hello there,

I'm going to do some color grading with Redcine-X (Epic footage 5k, shooted in RedLog film gamma space). I'm using an i-Mac and I'm going to do a DVD and a Bluray, wich color profile should I use? HD 709-A, Apple RGB or other? Are HD 709-A and Rec 709 the same color profile? Any suggestion on how to calibrate an i-Mac monitor? On Redcine-X wich color space should I use, redcolor, Redcolor2 or Redcolor3?

Thank you!
 
Simply put, I wouldn't use the iMac to judge colors for the deliverables you are mentioning. Also, can you expand a bit on your workflow? Are you editing in an NLE, then exporting for DVD/Blu-Ray? Or are you looking to edit, then conform/correct in Redcine-X? Knowing your complete workflow might help with the recommended procedures.
 
I edited in Premiere (CS6), then I would like to color grade in Redcine-X (or After Effects or both) and compositing in After Effects (CS6)
 
Assuming you are able to get your iMac monitor into the proper color space for video delivery, then in theory you could use Redcine-X to get your R3Ds to the base level of color that you want (1 light) and use Premiere/After Effects to do the final color correction (you'll have access to secondaries, sharpening, etc). The key though is you have to make sure that what you see is what you get with your monitoring or else you will run the risk of grading blindly. I highly recommend an I/O device and a monitor that can accurately give you REC709 video. Otherwise you will be going through some trial and error. It's an investment that can save you a lot of time/money in the end. A good combo is BMD I/O and Flanders Scientific(FSI) monitor. I sometimes prefer AJA hardware but if you think you will use Resolve at some point it's got to be BMD.
 
Steve,
Have you used speedgrade yet? If so, your thoughts using speedgrade and R3d's? I'm looking at which way to go...Resolve or Speedgrade in similar situation with both 2d and 3d work. I know Resolve has 3d tools....and have not really spent much time dabbling in speedgrade--which just does not seem user intuitive.
thanks....
 
I think Resolve is king. I've tried to use Speedgrade and it just wasn't to my liking compared to Resolve. I feel much more in control and home with Resolve.
 
Johnny Friday said:
Steve,
Have you used speedgrade yet? If so, your thoughts using speedgrade and R3d's? I'm looking at which way to go...Resolve or Speedgrade in similar situation with both 2d and 3d work. I know Resolve has 3d tools....and have not really spent much time dabbling in speedgrade--which just does not seem user intuitive.
thanks....
Click to expand...
Speedgrade has some fantastic features. Can be very quick for achieving looks. But it needs some time now that it has entered the Adobe world. It's got plenty of potential but it needs to be optimized to take full advantage of Adobe's tool sets. I call it a work in progress that may solve some people's needs but will come up short - for now - with others.

Resolve is a great bang for the buck product right now because it does so many things for so many different needs. For example, a DIT can use it as an onset dailies tool. It's a fantastic grading app. It's got strong conform tools. It's free unless you need the full version which many people don't. I'm not a colorist so I can't speak to the nitty gritty of what a colorist would really want/need but what I have used it for, it is very good. The downside is that you are limited to I/O from BMD. Actually, this is really only a downside if you need to use other brands like AJA and Matrox in other parts of your workflow such as your NLE, all on the same box. Otherwise I feel BMD I/O is optimized for use with Resolve and that's an advantage for users. Prices on BMD hardware is very affordable as well.

The most interesting of all right now is what Baselight is doing. Has anyone used Baselight Edition with Avid Media Composer 6? Very powerful tool to have inside the NLE. And the exchange to a full blown Baselight is very interesting. I am testing this combo on old Mac Pro hardware with a Kona 3 and I'm surprised so far at how well it's implemented at such an early stage. I hope they don't abandon this as it really is an appealing workflow. You can potentially do everything right inside the NLE, for those times when budget and time are going against you. For all other times, you can do some initial color in BE and then pass along to Baselight system for the polish. So much potential here. If Avid builds on it's 64-bit foundation and brings resolution independence into the equation think about the potential here.
 
Johnny, if possible I would dedicate a machine for Resolve. That way you can optimze it with the right hardware, including multiple GPUs. If you already have a good grading monitor that you trust, this may not be super expensive. You will be a happy camper for sure.
 
Thx for answers! What's the difference between HD 709-A and Rec 709?
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Speedgrade has some fantastic features. Can be very quick for achieving looks. But it needs some time now that it has entered the Adobe world. It's got plenty of potential but it needs to be optimized to take full advantage of Adobe's tool sets. I call it a work in progress that may solve some people's needs but will come up short - for now - with others.

Resolve is a great bang for the buck product right now because it does so many things for so many different needs. For example, a DIT can use it as an onset dailies tool. It's a fantastic grading app. It's got strong conform tools. It's free unless you need the full version which many people don't. I'm not a colorist so I can't speak to the nitty gritty of what a colorist would really want/need but what I have used it for, it is very good. The downside is that you are limited to I/O from BMD. Actually, this is really only a downside if you need to use other brands like AJA and Matrox in other parts of your workflow such as your NLE, all on the same box. Otherwise I feel BMD I/O is optimized for use with Resolve and that's an advantage for users. Prices on BMD hardware is very affordable as well.

The most interesting of all right now is what Baselight is doing. Has anyone used Baselight Edition with Avid Media Composer 6? Very powerful tool to have inside the NLE. And the exchange to a full blown Baselight is very interesting. I am testing this combo on old Mac Pro hardware with a Kona 3 and I'm surprised so far at how well it's implemented at such an early stage. I hope they don't abandon this as it really is an appealing workflow. You can potentially do everything right inside the NLE, for those times when budget and time are going against you. For all other times, you can do some initial color in BE and then pass along to Baselight system for the polish. So much potential here. If Avid builds on it's 64-bit foundation and brings resolution independence into the equation think about the potential here.
Click to expand...
Baaelight Editions had been out for almost two years now, although under a different moniker- Baselight plugin for FCP. If you do a search on RU you'll find, that at that time I wrote quite extensively on the subject. It's an idea not unlike Smoke. At the time the problem with FCP was lack of R3D workflow and no utilization of GPU. The GPU part had been rectified (so we had been told by Martin) and Avid can work with R3D, so that may be not an issue anymore. But hey, it's a real freaking Baselight. Very cool...
 
jake blackstone said:
Baaelight Editions had been out for almost two years now, although under a different moniker- Baselight plugin for FCP. If you do a search on RU you'll find, that at that time I wrote quite extensively on the subject. It's an idea not unlike Smoke. At the time the problem with FCP was lack of R3D workflow and no utilization of GPU. The GPU part had been rectified (so we had been told by Martin) and Avid can work with R3D, so that may be not an issue anymore. But hey, it's a real freaking Baselight. Very cool...
Click to expand...
You and Michael P really pushed me to finally give this a try as I have some projects that just don't have the time or budget to leave the NLE. I haven't tested in FCP yet as the real payoff for me would be the Avid workflow. It's been playing realtime on my HD-SDI monitor and I'm on old hardware and have my least powerful GPU in the machine right now. I suspect on a better Mac with better GPU I'll see even better performance from this plugin. When I say realtime, I'm of course referring to DNxHD clips and not R3Ds. I suspect even the most powerful Macs may not yet be playing realtime R3D at high quality with BE plugin. At some point this will all get moved over to a 12-core machine and we'll see what happens.

Jake, have you had a chance to test this yet on your Avid? What kind of performance are you getting? Still need to do that Resolve remote grade test with you but currently I am not configured correctly for it.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
You and Michael P really pushed me to finally give this a try as I have some projects that just don't have the time or budget to leave the NLE. I haven't tested in FCP yet as the real payoff for me would be the Avid workflow. It's been playing realtime on my HD-SDI monitor and I'm on old hardware and have my least powerful GPU in the machine right now. I suspect on a better Mac with better GPU I'll see even better performance from this plugin. When I say realtime, I'm of course referring to DNxHD clips and not R3Ds. I suspect even the most powerful Macs may not yet be playing realtime R3D at high quality with BE plugin. At some point this will all get moved over to a 12-core machine and we'll see what happens.

Jake, have you had a chance to test this yet on your Avid? What kind of performance are you getting? Still need to do that Resolve remote grade test with you but currently I am not configured correctly for it.
Click to expand...

I have not tested it with Avid, as I'm not and Avid user. I just need to decide which NLE I'm going to stick with and I'm still holding out for Smoke, as I'm hoping against all odds for Lustre inclusion. I have to say, what a pleasure to use Artist Color control panel with Baselight Editions. BM could use some of that magic in Resolve:-)
Yes, we still need to do the remote grading thingy:-) Right now I'm moving into the new office and I'm not quite ready to do it as well, but in a few days I will.
 
jake blackstone said:
I have not tested it with Avid, as I'm not and Avid user. I just need to decide which NLE I'm going to stick with and I'm still holding out for Smoke, as I'm hoping against all odds for Lustre inclusion. I have to say, what a pleasure to use Artist Color control panel with Baselight Editions. BM could use some of that magic in Resolve:-)
Yes, we still need to do the remote grading thingy:-) Right now I'm moving into the new office and I'm not quite ready to do it as well, but in a few days I will.
Click to expand...
Worth having a look. I am surprised how far along it is. I need to pick up an Artist Color panel soon and give that a shot.

As of right now, I can't see myself editing in Smoke. Actually, let me rephrase that. I can't see myself doing the day to day editing in Smoke. To make adjustments, perhaps. But someone who is doing a lot of compositing, titling, color correction I could see them really getting into that environment and doing great things.

Let me know once you are up and running in the new office. I'll see where I'm at with the Resolve system.

Sorry Alex, you can have your thread back. :-)
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Where are you seeing that in redcine-X? You should only see REC709 under the color/gamma settings.
Click to expand...

I only have Redcolor, Redcolor 2 and Redcolor 3 in the color setting in Redcine-X. Hd 709-A is a Mac color profile... do you know what it is?
 
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