RED ONE MX Shooting Package Using Only RED Accessories For $8500 - Possible?

[Simon Shasha]

I'm sure the RED veterans have been inundated with questions from RED novices like me ever since the price-drops, so please let me apologise in advance for asking what I'm about to ask

I'm pretty novice to all things RED. I've only ever owned a Canon 60D. I've always dreamed of owning a RED but simply couldn't afford to. However, the recent pricing of the RED ONE MX has opened up an opportunity for me. But that all depends on if I can bring in it under my budget (which right now is sitting at around $8500).

I guess to put my question simply; is it possible to create a RED ONE MX shooting package using only RED accessories for $8500?

Thanks in advance to any replies, much appreciated

P.S. I build performance PCs for a living. My current system is an Intel 2600K (4Core/8Thread) @ 4 x 4.4GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD drives for OS and apps, RAID 0 for editing, Geforce 560Ti GPU - would this set-up allow me to edit without a RED ROCKET?

Thanks again!

 

[Tim de la Torre]

I have the exact same question! I also have a Hackintosh with similar specs (albeit a bit slower, I can get my i7 920 2.6ghz system to be stable at 4.4ghz but I don't have a watercooled system, so I have to run it at 3.8).

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Simon, depends on what you'll be shooting with it. Here's some suggestions.

Red One Body - $4K
5.6" LCD (used) $500
Red Power Pack - $1450
(2) 64GB SSDs - $1500

Right there you're at $7450 and we haven't even talked about additional accessories, tripods, etc That's just to power up, see an image and have enough media to realistically shoot something for a day.

Things you can do to save money. Get third party batteries. Use Red Drives instead of or in addition to SSDs. Use still lenses. That means getting a mount for Red One, such as Nikon mount. Some have gone for as little as $100. So here's another possible budget.

Red One - $4k
LCD - $500
GMP batteries x 2 plus charger - $800
Used Red Drive - $300
Used Nikon Mount - $100
Nikon lenses - $1500
Everything else - $1300

The everything else is where it gets tricky. What do you use that money on? More batteries (you'll need them), another drive (never have just one piece of media), more lenses, a tripod, filters, follow focus, mattebox? You get the idea. It adds up quick. I think it's great that these cameras are now available at this low cost, but it's the everything else that gets you in the end. So you really have to identify what is needed for the type of shooting you do.

As for the computer, sounds like a fast machine. I assume you'll be on Adobe CS 6. You should get decent performance. But other's who are more savvy on the PC side can probably chime in on that.

 

[Simon Shasha]

Simon, depends on what you'll be shooting with it. Here's some suggestions.

Red One Body - $4K
5.6" LCD (used) $500
Red Power Pack - $1450
(2) 64GB SSDs - $1500

Right there you're at $7450 and we haven't even talked about additional accessories, tripods, etc That's just to power up, see an image and have enough media to realistically shoot something for a day.

Things you can do to save money. Get third party batteries. Use Red Drives instead of or in addition to SSDs. Use still lenses. That means getting a mount for Red One, such as Nikon mount. Some have gone for as little as $100. So here's another possible budget.

Red One - $4k
LCD - $500
GMP batteries x 2 plus charger - $800
Used Red Drive - $300
Used Nikon Mount - $100
Nikon lenses - $1500
Everything else - $1300

The everything else is where it gets tricky. What do you use that money on? More batteries (you'll need them), another drive (never have just one piece of media), more lenses, a tripod, filters, follow focus, mattebox? You get the idea. It adds up quick. I think it's great that these cameras are now available at this low cost, but it's the everything else that gets you in the end. So you really have to identify what is needed for the type of shooting you do.

As for the computer, sounds like a fast machine. I assume you'll be on Adobe CS 6. You should get decent performance. But other's who are more savvy on the PC side can probably chime in on that.

Thank you so, so much for the informative reply, Steve! Truly appreciate it! I have been scouring all over Sydney looking for second-hand RED ONE MX parts - I'm seeing someone about it tomorrow, hopefully they can give me a good price(s)!

So RED Drives and RED SSD are different things?

I have been collecting a lot of cheap, manual Nikon-F mount lenses as of late, so I could use them

Coming from the world of Canon SLRs, I own this tripod, but his wont hold a RED ONE MX, correct?: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ROVISTA7518B_Provista_7518_Tripod_w_FM18.html

I have been trying to push my budget to $10,000, but I fear by the time I get to that, the RED ONE MX will be sold-out.

Thank you so much again, hopefully I get good prices from the RED owner I am meeting tomorrow

 

[Tom Greenberg]

RED Drives are external RED-brand hard drives that come in 320GB and 640GB sizes. They connect to the R1 brain via a special LEMO cable. And that tripod is way inadequate for an R1...even stripped down to the bare minimum, it is going to weigh between 12-15 lbs.

 

[Tim de la Torre]

Steve: I hope it's okay to jump in as I have some questions to and am also eying a Red.

Which lens mount systems are compatible with the Red One? Only PL and Nikon F? How many batteries & how many gigs of Red Drives would I need for about 5 hours of filming at 4k and what would that cost? How do I get audio into the Red One? Is there a separate XLR module that has to be purchased or is there a way to send a line-level signal from a field mixer?

Would a Miller DS-20 tripod be substantial enough for a decent Red rig? I've heard concerns about using the camera plate to support a Kessler Pocket Dolly but I imagine that's a lit different torque that's being put on it than a centered camera.

Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom guys...

 

[Tom Greenberg]

The R1 comes standard with a PL mount. RED and some other companies make optional Nikon mounts for the R1. Allstar Cine makes a mount called the A-mount which can be adapted to PL, Nikon F and G, Leica R, Contax C/Y, BNCR, OCT-19 and Hasselblad. http://allstar-cine.myweb.hinet.net/. I use the A-mount and absolutely love it.

Birger makes a Canon EF mount, but it is not RED approved and will void your warranty (although people that use it seem to like it just fine).

A RED BRick battery is good for about 2 hrs...so you would need at least 3 for 5 hrs. of recording. A 320GB RED Drive is about 2.5 hrs. of recording depending on which recording format, and compression rate you choose, so you would need at least a couple of those for 5 hrs. Check the used equipment forums here for deals on used ones.

R1 has 4 mini-XLR audio inputs on the body, so you just need the appropriate cables....no separate audio module required. The inputs can be mic or line level.

A Miller DS--20 would be OK...I use a Miller Arrow 55, and a lot of people use Miller Compass 25s, so I think the DS-20 would be a good choice. A fully-rigged R1 is about 25-30 lbs.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Which lens mount systems are compatible with the Red One? Only PL and Nikon F?

R1 comes with a PL. There are various Nikon mounts. The original RED version (made by Doug Underdahl), Optitek ProLock, and Innocinema's version. The most versatile mount is the Allstar mount. This allows you to use many different types of lenses including PL without having to remove the mount. You use adapters. Warning though: it gets expensive. To do it right, each still lens would get its own adapter which provides a more robust way to mount a still lens. The PL mount is different and you only need one because basically it adapts the allstar mount to a PL mount. $390 for the Allstar mount, $290 for PL, and average of about $180 per adapter for still lenses.

How many batteries

Minimum of 4, better to have 6.

how many gigs of Red Drives would I need for about 5 hours of filming at 4k and what would that cost?

4k 16x9 @RC36 @23.98fps with total runtime of 5 hours will be about 650GB. In that case, I would suggest three 320GB RED Drives or one 640GB RED Drive and one 320GB RED Drive. Or three 256GB RED SSDs. If the filming is something more continuous where you can't change out the media often, perhaps a 512GB SSD plus a 256GB SSD. SSDs in this case are an expensive option. Media choice comes down to budget, type of shooting (RED Drives are spinning disks which is riskier), offload needs, etc.

How do I get audio into the Red One? Is there a separate XLR module that has to be purchased or is there a way to send a line-level signal from a field mixer?

4 channels of audio connected via mini-XLR to XLR adapter cables. Al built into camera. Easy to send line level to camera. Camera also has phantom power if needed.

Would a Miller DS-20 tripod be substantial enough for a decent Red rig? I've heard concerns about using the camera plate to support a Kessler Pocket Dolly but I imagine that's a lit different torque that's being put on it than a centered camera.

Generally I recommend a tripod system that has load capacity of at least 30lbs. This gives you a lot of flexibility. I have been happy with Miller Arrow55 head. I have HD150 sticks which are a bit too heavy duty at times but save my but when I really need them.

Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom guys...

No problem

Edit: Tom beat me to it. Haha.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

Your answers were more detailed though, Steve, lol...

 

[Tim de la Torre]

Nice.. I definitely have some reading to do. I'm pretty invested in m43 glass at the moment for my GH2s and I still have a Sony EX1. I do a lot of run & gun documentary work and I mainly use the EX1 for that but I have rigged out the GH2 a bit and it actually works quite well for certain situations. I think a Red would give me some awesome advantages. I'd love to future-proof my projects with 4k and I shoot a lot of stock footage as well, so it is a concern. High frame rates are awesome. I need to read up on the main differences between the Epic, Scarlet, and R1 but if I want to get decent glass, I should probably focus on that and build a camera system around it later. m43 glass probably isn't going to take me anywhere and it's not as compatible as Nikon or even Canon EOS.... not to mention if I just buy myself a set of Zeiss CP.2s... the trick to me seems to be in trying to find a few rental jobs to supplement my income as most of the projects I work on don't demand a Red camera and the clients wouldn't be interested in paying more for it.... decisions decisions...

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Just think basic, and you'll get off the ground. If you have any income on this, it won't be hard to re-invest.
It also depends a bit on primary use. Mobility demands batteries. Etc.

Cheapest way to get up?

Body
Top-handle with camera mount.
Lcd
Drive
Ac adapter
Battery belt clip.
Nikon mount

There should also be a bunch of CF side modules around.
The RED/lexar CF8gb cards have been really solid on me.
The 16GB cards needs some more attention in offloading, but have never been buggy in-camera.

But with the cf option, you really have a lightweight rig that can shoot under most conditions. (Though short takes).

The SSDs are of course better, but also pricier.

Agree with steve that 2x chargers and 4x batteries is the base config.

With a bit of luck, you're up and running at around 6k/7k

This config also works good for handheld.
I have been running around with a similar (though pl) config for hours at end. To me the beltclip has been the saviour.

The gmp chargers and batteries work well on the R1 and the chargers are dual as opposed to REDs.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Just think basic, and you'll get off the ground. If you have any income on this, it won't be hard to re-invest.
It also depends a bit on primary use. Mobility demands batteries. Etc.

Cheapest way to get up?

Body
Top-handle with camera mount.
Lcd
Drive
Ac adapter
Battery belt clip.
Nikon mount

There should also be a bunch of CF side modules around.
The RED/lexar CF8gb cards have been really solid on me.
The 16GB cards needs some more attention in offloading, but have never been buggy in-camera.

But with the cf option, you really have a lightweight rig that can shoot under most conditions. (Though short takes).

The SSDs are of course better, but also pricier.

Agree with steve that 2x chargers and 4x batteries is the base config.

With a bit of luck, you're up and running at around 6k/7k

This config also works good for handheld.
I have been running around with a similar (though pl) config for hours at end. To me the beltclip has been the saviour.

The gmp chargers and batteries work well on the R1 and the chargers are dual as opposed to REDs.

Battery belt clip can definitely be the key to keeping the weight off the body. Some configs may utilize the battery attached on the backside for balance. I have always found I like getting the battery off the rig entirely.

 

[Tim de la Torre]

One more question... I saw Jim mention these R1's are in limited stock. I'm not in a HUGE hurry to upgrade to a Red but tell me if you think (and I know it's purely speculation at this point) they will sell out and used ones will sell for more for the next year or so. I'm not sure I should have to worry about EVERYONE wanting an R1 at this price and them becoming unavailable or not... thoughts?

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I'd have bought one now, if I could and could put itto use.

This camera runs circles around most other systems out there. And now it is at a price, which probably never will be lower. And it is refurbed and certified by RED.

Think about what your alternative systems are...

But no need to buy it as a doorstop, that's for sure.

 

[Thanavorakit K.]

Are new RED Drives still available? I don't see them in RED.com store.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Are new RED Drives still available? I don't see them in RED.com store.

RED drives are EOL, and do NOT fot every shootingcondition.

Still have overseen many 10- hours and several hundreds of shootingdays on them without issues, when used for whatthey work for.

Just remember they areRAID-0 and spinning, and you are good.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

I have been asking questions too, if anybody can help that will be appreciated. Here are the questions, some of this has been covered. Thanks.

How long and big is the Redone?

What else is needed to get it to independent shooting standard?

Is it true that an SSD drive is included, or is that just a module for a mag?

A bit confused, what do I need to use a standard shop SSD drive, and what plugs into what?

What are the control options, and what is the remote?

What are the battery and power options, are they standard ones, or do they need to be the ones at the Red store?

Is control independent of the screen?

Any PL to other slr lens converters out there?

How sensitive in low light is it?

I take it that it: records four channel sound directly to camera, and has audio monitoring ports; I just hook my own screen and head phones up through hdmi for live monitoring?

Is there anything else I need to know to start shooting, and in owning one of these?


Thanks

 

[Tom Greenberg]

A lot of these questions have already been answered in recent threads since the $4K price announcement, but here goes...

- The R1 body is approximately 12" long and weighs 10 lbs. without any accessories or lens attached.
- You will need a lens, power, recording media, a monitoring device, and a way to attach it to a tripod (or a handheld rig) to start shooting
- No SSD media is included at the $4K price...but the body does come with the SSD module attached that the media plugs into
- You can only use RED-brand SSD media mags, you can't use any third party SSD drives at all. As I said above, the RED Mag SSD cartridges plug into the SSD module which is attached to the side of the camera body
- The R1 has a full complement of buttons and joystick controls on the back of the camera body which let you control the camera operation. There are also a few programmable buttons elsewhere on the body. The body also has a small LCD readout that shows all the camera settings (not used for monitoring).
- There is no remote control available, other than a GPIO connection which will allow you to remote start/stop the camera and also initiate recording. This requires a third-party controller.
- Battery & power options are standard AB or V-Mount, but require a battery plate to RED Lemo connector adapter...several companies, including RED, make these
- The Allstar A-mount is the most versatile lens system for the R1. It allows you to connect PL, Nikon, Leica, Contax, BNCR, M42, OCT19, and Hasselblad lenses using adapters: http://allstar-cine.myweb.hinet.net/html/red_accessories/A_Mr.htm A-Mount is fully approved by RED and does not affect your warranty.
- The R1MX uses the same sensor as Epic and performs very well in low light. Usable range is at least 11 stops of exposure
- There are 4 channels of audio built in to the body. These can be either mic or line level and can supply phantom power to microphones
- Monitoring is done either through a RED EVF or Bomb EVF, a RED LCD (not the touch LCD of the Epic/Scarlet), or a third-party monitor connected via HDMI or HD-SDI

Those are the basics. Of course you need to consider things like rods, handles and accessory mounting hardware, along with matteboxes, follow focuses, dovetails, shoulder rigs, etc. to create a complete shooting package.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Thanks Rob, you are a real gentleman. Most people will give you a smart part answer and not even mistake what you ask and answer something else. But sees I'm out, the size, the custom ssd, accessories, if it at least could do 4kp50, I would consider it again. It is also not vital at this point in time. I will have to see what Dragon Scarlet comes out etc.

 

[Ezmeer Rahman]

How much footage can be saved into the CF 16 Gb for example?

and we can use any other CF card right besides RED ones?