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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

a bit disappointed with the 4K coming from the Scarlet

A

Andy Corleone

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I did some test during the weekend, and find the 4K coming from the scarlet a bit disappointing. I don't even know if they are really 4K. When I compare 1080p vs 720p there is a considerable step up in resolution. but when I compare 1080p to Scarlet 4K the improvement is very minimal. I'm not saying is not improvement what I'm saying is very minimal.

I'm loving the RAW format and all the potential of Grading and Adjustment but the advertised resolution I don't find it realistic. Just wondered if with the upcoming sony 4K cameras we re going to see something different and that was one of the reason of the sub-real price cut.

Don't take me wrong, I'm just wondered If I'm missing something?
 
How are you looking at your test?
 
Stephen Williams said:
How are you looking at your test?
Click to expand...

Macbook retina, 1080p Projector and 1920x1200 Monitor

some of the test I had done was cropping some 4K footage to 1080p and comparing it to 1080p Scaled footage comming from FS100 and Hacked GH2
 
Andy Corleone said:
Macbook retina, 1080p Projector and 1920x1200 Monitor

some of the test I had done was cropping some 4K footage to 1080p and comparing it to 1080p Scaled footage comming from FS100 and Hacked GH2
Click to expand...

So your not looking at 4k are you?
 
Andy Corleone said:
...some of the test I had done was cropping some 4K footage to 1080p and comparing it to 1080p Scaled footage comming from FS100 and Hacked GH2
Click to expand...

You cropped out a 1920x1080 image from the 4k source? Not resized 4k to 1080p, but cropped?
 
He is looking at it 1:1, which should look as good (after sharpening, since most 1080p cams use sharpening internally.) It's probably your glass; if it's stills stuff, its a really mixed bag.

If you can, post a .r3d so people can see.
 
Andy Corleone said:
I did some test during the weekend, and find the 4K coming from the scarlet a bit disappointing. I don't even know if they are really 4K. When I compare 1080p vs 720p there is a considerable step up in resolution. but when I compare 1080p to Scarlet 4K the improvement is very minimal. I'm not saying is not improvement what I'm saying is very minimal.

I'm loving the RAW format and all the potential of Grading and Adjustment but the advertised resolution I don't find it realistic. Just wondered if with the upcoming sony 4K cameras we re going to see something different and that was one of the reason of the sub-real price cut.

Don't take me wrong, I'm just wondered If I'm missing something?
Click to expand...


Maybe a good lens....

I cannot tell the difference between scarlet and EPIC footage... when I mix it all up.

Maybe your watching it at 1/4 res preview... ?

Try making a TIFF still frame from the RAW file and put that in Photoshop... open out to 100% and see what you have. Post it and Ill tell you straight away what your doing wrong... at even better make a R3D still frame from RSX, and once again Ill access what your doing wrong.

good luck.
 
Andy, First of all. You only need to sharpen raw footage, footage coming out from the GH2 or FS100 is not raw, therefore it will very likely already have sharpening in it, and you're just over sharpening it. Also Red Epics shoot in 5K in order to be able to down sample to 4K and resolve more horizontal resolution. The Scarlet shoot 4K. Of course if you had to compare the resolution of a down sampled 5K to 4K from Epic versus and a 4K capture from Scarlet, the Epic clip would look sharper, even though the image size would be the same. Therefore don't worry too much. If you had to capture and deliver at 4K from the Scarlet, and watch your footage through a 4K cinema projector it will blow your brains out still. Trusts me on that. :)
 
This is one of the test I did:

First Shoot with the Scarlet and them Shoot with the FS100 and Gh2 the same framing. I try different Glass Nikon 14-24mm 28-70mm and Zeiss 21mm.

I cropped the Scarlet shoot applied some Sharper on redcine and exported as Proress HQ,

on After effects and Davinci Resolve I Scale Up the footage from the FS100 and the GH2 to match Scarlet Cropping

The result was very similar slightly better at 200% compared on Resolved, Photoshop and Aftereffects
 
You will get the most benefit of a 4K image on a movie screen or at least 4k TV. What it sounds like you are doing is making 1080 versions and comparing them. In this case you shouldn't only look for sharpness, as this is relative and a matter of taste, but color, cleanliness of image, latitude and a million other things.

I remember going into the 5D booth at NAB and being horrified at the image they were proudly projecting on a relatively small 10 foot screen. On a computer monitor that image would have been beautiful and made everyone question why they would buy a RED over a 5D.

In the end it's all about what happens when you get passed the size of a computer screen.

For computer screens and TVs, the main benefit of RED is knowing you are getting a great image in almost any situation, without worrying about moire, strobing, being under/over by a stop or two, overcranking and everything else. Plus you will have massive oversampling, which is always a good thing. This is why I use it.

If I one day need the resolution it can put out, that will be a bonus.

So to say 1080 looks like 1080 is not really a criticism of the Scarlet as much as a criticism of 1080 itself.
 
Andy, not for nothing but this is a bit trivial until you provide us with the images in question. Otherwise everyone is imagining what it may look like.
 
Scarlet's downscaled 1080p footage looks fantastic. It's sharp as katana.
It was shot at REDCODE 7:1 with Zeiss Compact Prime 50mm.
 
You're not doing anything wrong. 100% crop from RED can look pretty dissappinting even with the sharpest of lenses. Especially if you compare it to a cropped DSLR raw still (yes, after processing, sharpening, etc), or an (internally procesed) 1080p clip from an FS100. It's been faught about many a time on here but as someone already said, watching it from a 4K projector is a totally different story, and so is a 1080p scale down from 4K (amazing). So, I'm not debating the point, or wanting answers, hell I'm not even complaining....but you are right :)

We have a local cinema that recently got brand new 4k projectors...I watched 15 short films all shot on RED and my head exploded.
 
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