Everything changes... IMPORTANT post.

[Jon Jones]

LOL, I always tell my 8 year old daughter to stop telingl people what to do, and here I am doing it myself, I wonder where she gets it from, lol. I just gotta say the whole body sputum comment was really gross, and I hope we won't be seeing that again.... What the, there I go again, trying to run people's lives. But for real though. I have dropped my whole attitude against this thread. I want to think that I'm glad the price is going down, that will lower my expectations for income from both of my RED systems and will maybe put me back into the whole hobbyist category again. Which is way less stress.

Again, you seem to think you are entitled to be the only one complaining. There is another side to the position. It is very frustrating that you cannot see both sides. It has been pointed out time and again in this thread that RED is probably not going to listen but those self-styled lobbyists (not you, you fall into the condescending category that is telling everyone how to behave) continue to lobby. Those lobbying efforts shall not go uncontested! (again, nothing personal, with all due respect etc. etc.)

 

[Freya]

Honestly... TLDR. Learn to summarize.

Actually I wrote stuff that was more like a summary earlier in the thread. I decided to write something longer. I don't believe that a summary is the same thing.

Theres actually no obligation to read it.

It's funny, long ago before the internet, it wasn't that uncommon to write long letters and the like and when it was done, it was seen as being a good thing.
These days people have a fear of longer text which is ironic as it's a lot easier and faster to write things now thanks to the power of computers!
I've never quite understood this. I think it's fine for someone to write "war and peace". You don't have to read it.

love

Freya

 

[Jon Jones]

Just so ya'll know the hobbyist comment at the end of my last comment was a joke.

 

[Freya]

They have not invested 38k into a camera body 2 months ago only to see the price slashed overnight to who knows how much.

Yikes! 2 months is a short time. I may get in trouble for saying this but If I was in that situation I would definitely contact my sales contact at RED and let them know how I felt about the situation. I'd also be sure to bring it up the next time you are considering placing an order with them.

In the mean time I would suggest you use this as extra motivation to get out there and to make your EPIC work for you!

love

Freya

 

[Jon Jones]

Freya, yes both of our camera packages are out the door a bunch. But we like to think that has something to do with our long standing history in the community (30+ years) and lens availability. Do you really think that complaining to my Bomb Squad Rep is going to help matters? I don't. I like my REP, and I wouldn't want to be another person complaining to him.

Yikes! 2 months is a short time. I may get in trouble for saying this but If I was in that situation I would definitely contact my sales contact at RED and let them know how I felt about the situation. I'd also be sure to bring it up the next time you are considering placing an order with them.

In the mean time I would suggest you use this as extra motivation to get out there and to make your EPIC work for you!

love

Freya

 

[Jon Jones]

It's funny because I bought my car for the same price at the same time and it has only lost a couple of thousand of dollars in value. while it took 4 years for it to lose half of it's value (it was 70k brand new).

 

[Elsie N]

LOL, I always tell my 8 year old daughter to stop telingl people what to do, and here I am doing it myself, I wonder where she gets it from, lol. I just gotta say the whole body sputum comment was really gross, and I hope we won't be seeing that again.... What the, there I go again, trying to run people's lives. But for real though. I have dropped my whole attitude against this thread. I want to think that I'm glad the price is going down, that will lower my expectations for income from both of my RED systems and will maybe put me back into the whole hobbyist category again. Which is way less stress.

I respect your position in regard to your income possibly dropping (but I really think that is a sky-is-falling fear). I posted in another thread where Rob Ruffo called Indie filmmakers "hobbiests" and if you read that and concur, then maybe you will not denigrate yourself should you go there. '-)

Sorry about the Body Sputum comment. To me it is more acceptable than the term it replaced. To paraphrase FDR "I've seen Bull Shit, and I hate Bull Shit."

All good with me Jon. Hope it's the same with you.

 

[Jon Jones]

Hey man, I just want to get away from the whole, gotta make money, gotta make money, to the ahhh I have a nice camera that I can shoot fun stuff with and also secondarily make money as well. That is where I started, and I plan to go back to that place. My next stop is Mexico, I just bought a house there and will be headed that way in the near months...

I respect your position in regard to your income possibly dropping (but I really think that is a sky-is-falling fear). I posted in another thread where Rob Ruffo called Indie filmmakers "hobbiests" and if you read that and concur, then maybe you will not denigrate yourself should you go there. '-)

Sorry about the Body Sputum comment. To me it is more acceptable than the term it replaced. To paraphrase FDR "I've seen Bull Shit, and I hate Bull Shit."

All good with me Jon. Hope it's the same with you.

 

[Elsie N]

Hey man, I just want to get away from the whole, gotta make money, gotta make money, to the ahhh I have a nice camera that I can shoot fun stuff with and also secondarily make money as well. That is where I started, and I plan to go back to that place. My next stop is Mexico, I just bought a house there and will be headed that way in the near months...

O. K., now I've got lifestyle envy. I might have chosen Belize, but that's just me. '-)

 

[Freya]

Freya, yes both of our camera packages are out the door a bunch. But we like to think that has something to do with our long standing history in the community (30+ years) and lens availability. Do you really think that complaining to my Bomb Squad Rep is going to help matters? I don't. I like my REP, and I wouldn't want to be another person complaining to him.

Sounds like you are quite established and won't have trouble renting out the new camera, I thought you were suggesting that you had just started out 2 months ago. Which would be a much more difficult situation. As an established company you should have no problem making the money back.

I'm quite mystified by the people who are doing just fantastic but spend so much time complaining!

love

Freya

 

[Noel R.]

There's so much more to a production than just the camera. At this point both an Arri M18 and a proper steadicam system with a wireless follow focus cost more than a Scarlet and lets not forget the cost of PL Lenses which make the cost of a Scarlet look like chump change. If indies want professional results they will need much more than a camera. Film permits, locations, talented actors. I don't see much change happening in Hollywood because of it. A pro camera will not turn anyone into the next Hollwood bigshot. Hollywood has never chosen RED because of it's price. They chose it because of the image quality, and they will continue to do so. It pisses me off when I'm told I need a million dollars worth of insurance coverage in order to shoot some dialogue on a sidewalk. I often ask myself why? In case my lens falls on the ground and someone steps on some broken glass? But this is how the industry works. The next Spiderman will still cost $250 million even if RED gave away their cameras for free. There will be low budget films with higher quality images. We will see higher quality wedding videos. The pros will continue to be pros because they have access to everything else. A few indie filmmakers will shine high because of it and a greater percentage of them won't.

 

[C. Jagan Mohan]

Dear All,

What ever it is the out come about this price cut.
We have a saying in India....Everything is temporary..Nothing is permanent..What you are this second is not same after few seconds...you can never be same again... change is the law...everything changes...this is the law...some time change is for good...some times it is bad ..really bad.
So why many of you are breaking their heads on this thread on speculating future...No body knows the future...no one speculated future correctly...if that's true, we should have been still ruled by Kings... Just hope this change at RED will be good for all..and for RED...one who do not like change is a pessimist. I hope RED users are not pessimist.

 

[Freya]

Hey man, I just want to get away from the whole, gotta make money, gotta make money, to the ahhh I have a nice camera that I can shoot fun stuff with and also secondarily make money as well. That is where I started, and I plan to go back to that place. My next stop is Mexico, I just bought a house there and will be headed that way in the near months...

The phrase that is in my head right now is "pulling the ladder up after you".

Wow this thread has really opened my eyes.
Really gotta stop worrying about other people, I always seem to end up worrying about people who least need my concern!

love

Freya

 

[Iain Philpott]

I think the fact of the matter is simple. There are enough RED Epics out there to shoot every feature film in the world all at the same time. The market is saturated with them. The rental houses have enough of them to satisfy demand. The only 'big' sales left are to people who already own them via upgrades such as Dragon.

However if you substantially drop the price there is a much bigger audience to sell to. At the right price there is the world of wedding videographers for example. But it needs to be at the right price.

That's what RED is about to do - move out of a saturated market place and find more customers - it can't survive selling 200 cameras a year.

 

[Peter Moretti]

My understanding is that there is now a ratified standard for 8k UHD. I'm also under the impression that the BBC made test broadcasts of UHD during the olympics (in fact I remember there were cinema screenings of this in a number of citys here in the UK). I think there are also test broadcasts in Japan right now. I'm a bit busy right now and can't check all my facts on this, so please feel free to do so, I could have some finer points wrong or be a bit off base but I think that 8k is very much on its way.

Havn't read the entire thread so I'm not sure how this relates to anything in context, but I very much believe we are heading for an 8k future (which will be a good thing in a lot of ways I think!)

love

Freya

Freya,

I agree that UHD is a real standard that people are working to get adopted.

What I take issue with is the claim that digital cinema camera makers, e.g. Sony, Arri, Panavision, Panasonic, Weiscam, Phantom, P+S Tecnik, Ikonoskop, Aaton, etc. were sitting on 4k technology but decided not to persue it because each made the strategic decision to go from 1080P/2K directly to 8K believeing 8K would be a soon enough future. I also disagree with the conclusion that this point was made to support: namely that Red is not responsible for any technological advancement.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Image quality per dollar ratio:
we all know where this tech is heading, either in bleeding increments or industry shaking ones.

Anyone who is half interested will own a camera soon enough. In fact, just as in the stills world, owning a camera will in itself mean dick all.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

It's funny because I bought my car for the same price at the same time and it has only lost a couple of thousand of dollars in value. while it took 4 years for it to lose half of it's value (it was 70k brand new).

Not that it's relevant but, before I'd believe THAT I'd have to see documentation. LOL

 

[Freya]

Freya,
What I take issue with is the claim that digital cinema camera makers, e.g. Sony, Arri, Panavision, Panasonic, Weiscam, Phantom, P+S Tecnik, Ikonoskop, Aaton, etc. were sitting on 4k technology but decided not to persue it because each made the strategic decision to go from 1080P/2K directly to 8K believeing 8K would be a soon enough future. I also disagree with the conclusion that this point was made to support: namely that Red is not responsible for any technological advancement.

I think it's more likely that Sony have been heading in this direction to support their 4k projectors and that the other companies just saw that RED was having some success with it. Why rush into 4k if you can keep selling 1080p.

 

[Peter Moretti]

IMHO, Bingo!


P.S. I'd like to add that rushing into 4K was not an option for the other makers when the Red One was released. 4K represented a huge amount of data that required new compression, storage and workflow. Even now, I'm sure making a 4K camera is not a trivial task.

 

[Elsie N]

Not that it's relevant but, before I'd believe THAT I'd have to see documentation. LOL

Maybe it was a used Yugo that had already depreciated. '-)