Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED SCARLET with s16 optics in 2k

Giuseppe Badalamenti

Giuseppe Badalamenti

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Website
www.facebook.com
i have used red for a couple of years now... as everyone i know that 2k gives a lot of problems, blurry images, soft focuses, cropping etc.

i wonder how well can it manage with super 16mm optics working at 2k, would it give the same noise problems, soft image, etc.

also having an idea would this problem be eliminated through a external recorder as the atomos or gemini, that way it wouldn't be a processing problem.

i have tried to look for things done in 2k with s16 optics in RED but i havent found anything...

i wouldn't care to loose all the matadata, if i ger a clean image at 422 in 2k... but i would like it to be sharp, true to its context and most of all noiseless.

any ideas... examples of things done at 2k with 16mm optics? and things done with external recorders?...

thanks a lot guys i just want to make a right decision on buying this camera.

PP
 
Sounds like an awesome idea, and I'm sure the optics would help the cause in terms of sharpness but noise is always going to be there. The crop is magnifying the noise, that's the problem. Red 1 seems to do better than scarlet in this case but yeah, it would be nice to see some better results for scarlet. I'll have mine soon and will gladly test this setup for you (with ATOMOS).
 
I doubt that S16 optics would make anything 'better', just cheaper. Nothing about those optics is going to be sharper. Also, the external recorder isnt going to help eliminate noise as any noise present on the raw image would just be recorded at a lower resolution on the recorder out of one of the video feeds. Red cameras shoot Raw and do have very little noise reduction built into them (none?), do I think you'd do better to buy a good noise reduction plug in for post. If you hunt around the forums you'll find several threads on the noise reduction issue.
 
I agree that losing metadata is not so bad. But losing raw and resolution is... I would consider using it for live events though.
 
Justin Talley said:
I doubt that S16 optics would make anything 'better', just cheaper. Nothing about those optics is going to be sharper.
Click to expand...

Hey Justin, I'm not sure if this is entirely true. I'm just a producer, but I have read more than once that high end S16 & 16 lenses are actually SHARPER then their S35 equivalents, because they have to be. To imprint on such a small negative, the resolution demanded of them is extreme.

This may only apply to the expensive Zeiss Super Speed lenses, but I personally am curious if using cheaper 16mm lenses will produce a different 2K result than using standard S35 glass.

I think it needs more research...

But in the end...you may be right...it may just be "cheaper"...but I'd love to see if it sometimes CAN be "better".
 
i am just trying to figure out a good way todo slow motion... and not get any weird stuff... the external recorder is mainly because i have tod do a documentary but i dont want to loose time and space in the middle of the rain forest. i just want to assure my odds are on the right place... i dont mind doing it if the camara can be setted to output a log LUT... the rest for me would be vanity... in fiction i would take advantage of all raw capabilities.

thanks guys
 
the only time i got sharp on a red one was at mid day shooting 120fps waves at 100 iso, f 22 so on... the thing is that there is very fast 16mm glass out there the s16 illuminas for example... and you can manage to keep your iso as low as posible... the GH2 has the same problem when working at crop mode...
 
Giuseppe Badalamenti said:
i am just trying to figure out a good way todo slow motion... and not get any weird stuff... the external recorder is mainly because i have tod do a documentary but i dont want to loose time and space in the middle of the rain forest. i just want to assure my odds are on the right place... i dont mind doing it if the camara can be setted to output a log LUT... the rest for me would be vanity... in fiction i would take advantage of all raw capabilities.

thanks guys
Click to expand...

one thing to remember is that no external recorder will capture live the "slow motion" - only if you use it to capture the clip while played back on the camera...
 
didnt think about it, feel kindda stupid. lol. but then again... just for saving half the normal storage in the cards, it would be nice to see something shot with s16 lenses on 2k to see how it responds... i did it one, but it was specifically for 90fps on a mysterium... it was an old zoom so again i think its hard to judge,,, at a point i felt it gave it a certain texture... but still i would love to see some trials... for some reason a lot of people selling 16mm pl zooms in ebay are specifying red 2k... but tests are hard to come by...
 
you are right man... its a signal capture... :S ... anyway it would be nice to see more tests of things photographed with s16 at 2k... its mostly about storage, for me 2k at times is enough. theres a lot of people selling 16mm pl zooms online, they all put red 2k on their tag... but no tests... peace man thanks
 
I've been thinking about using S16 lenses when you need a wide slow-mo shot.
 
You are right that some of the very tip top S16 glass was razor sharp, but as with anything, tipping the scales of a lens to one factor or another always comes at a cost. Great S16 glass usually isn't cheap either. If you find a really rad S16 zoom lens for cheap and you shoot a ton of 2k, grab it. Much of the really good high end S16 glass that I see, especially zooms, are still quite expensive... for my taste, far too expensive if you consider that you can't use it at 4k. Rental wise though... if you've got a rental house nearby that still carries S16 glass, I'm sure you can rent it dirt cheap.
 
This is sorta a cross-post from my Scarlet 610 thread. But I was playing with 2k this afternoon. When I first got my LCD last week and shot some stuff I thought 2k sucked. But now that I better understand how to expose RED, I think it is great. 2k, 8:1, Nikon 105 2.5 at F8.

2k!
Full size jpg: http://mattjohnstonsfp.com/pics/A002_C020_020807.jpg
A002_C020_020807.jpg


R3D grab if you'd like:
http://mattjohnstonsfp.com/pics/A002_C020_020807.0000200F.R3D

I have to shoot some more for sure. But so far, I think I like 2k at 8:1 better than 4kHD at the higher compressions like 12:1 for sure.
 
hey,
i will do some tests end of next week, when my arri ultra16 lenses are back from rent. unfortunately i dont own a scarlet, but i will ask a friend of mine. if anyone has specific wishes what to test, please tell me! ( i guess my friend has all red opicts)
 
Whilst the SI2K and the Scarlett may be chalk and cheese, there is below, a link to a couple of tests at lower web res on vimeo which might give a bit of a clue. The lenses are Angenieux "Compact" zoom 17.5mm - 70mm which Ken Hale at Whitehouse Audiovisual is selling as new old stock residual from the production run of the CP GSMO film camera and a used CP Ultra T* 9mm prime.

In terms of comparative sharpness, the Super16mm film camera lenses come in sharper than 35mm lenses. There are apparently several reasons, one being the requirement of Super16mm lenses to resolve to the smaller image area with sharpness relative to frame size comparable to the larger 35mm frame.

Shooting through the centre of 35mm for Super16mm or 2K Digital Cinem apparently can be a mixed blessing. You get to see through the sometimes sharper centre zone of the broader 35mm camera image but shooting through the centre of 35mm film lenses sometimes brings with it other reasons for lesser sharpness, one being to do with aperture settings being optimal at higher numbers for these lenses.

The Super16mm lenses I have, are sweetest in about a 1.5 stop zone centred on about T3 for the 9mm and about T4 for the Angenieux.

http://vimeo.com/search?q=agus35monk


B4-Mount HDTV lenses are not bad either, so long as the zoom range is not too broad. Then barrel and pincushion distortion begins to become apparent and it is not 3D friendly. At 2K they crop at the wide end, the vignette may widen away until about 22mm to 35mm when it closes in, then widens away again through the range to the narrow end.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top