Need HELP building 4k Editing PC

[JJ Rok]

I am looking to build a new editing station to edit 4k. My budget is only $3k so I've been playing around with a lot of options. Here are the specs I've been considering.

Intel i7 3930k (maybe overclocked)

ASUS P9X79 PRO

32GB RAM 1600MHz

120GB SSD - boot drive

2 - 2TB WD Black - set up in RAID 0 or 1

1 - 2TB WD Black - storage drive

NVIDIA 570 2.5GB or 580 3GB

Liquid cooling


I've noticed a lot of people posting about editing 4k with the i7 2600. So here are my questions:

Is the 3930k worth it? I know it will be better in the long run, but if I can edit 4k with a cheaper processor I could spend the difference in other areas.

Which NVIDIA card? I read that the 570 is really close in CUDA cores to the 580, but the 580 offers more RAM. Is the difference between the570 2.5GBand 580 3GB that noticeable?

What about cooling/case fans? Heat spreaders? Hard drive coolers? How many do I need even with a liquid cooling system?


I know $3k is a low budget but it is all I have to work with. The biggest needs in that $3k are a processor/gpu that will handle 4k well and a RAID setup with a lot of storage space. I know that I will eventually get an external RAID as backup.

Any help or recommendations are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Do not overclock. You'll end up with a less stable platform with little gain in actual performance.

I had an Asus P9X79 PRO mobo at first but it ran out of usable PCIe slots as I was trying to fit in two GPUs, a RED Rocket and a SAS adapter. Went with Asus Rampage IV Extreme instead and have been quite happy with it. Haven't tested GTX570, have been very happy with GTX580/3GB for CUDA and GTX460 for GUI. I use liquid cooling for CPU (3930K) only + one large fan at the top of the chassis to expell hot air + one small fan in chassis door pushing cool air on the cards. A 120GB boot SSD + a couple of internal SSD drives (OCZ Agility4 512GB is semi-affordable) for small projects and an external 16TB RAID-6 SAS array for larger ones. Haven't needed the SAS array yet, to be honest.

 

[JJ Rok]

Thanks Petri, I won't be using two GPU's or a RR so do you think the Asus P9X79 PRO is sufficient? I want to go with the GTX580/3GB but to fit it in the budget I can't afford a much more expensive mobo. I hadn't considered using internal SSDs but it sounds great. I will mostly be working on smaller projects, and will buy a RAID array in the coming months. So that sounds better than WD's but again its more in the budget. Do you use the 512GBs in RAID 0 or 1?

 

[Scott Shropshire]

Do you know how to overclock? If you do then yes you can get a rendering stable platform with huge gains in performance... you will need a high end cooling setup on the processors you'll be over clocking though. What liquid cooling blocks, radiators, pumps, hosing, fittings were you looking at getting my friend? You can build a nice rig for 3k so don't worry!

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Thanks Petri, I won't be using two GPU's or a RR so do you think the Asus P9X79 PRO is sufficient?

Sure. I had no problems with it before running out of PCIe slots.

Do you use the 512GBs in RAID 0 or 1?

SSDs are so fast these days no RAID array is needed. Even the slower-than-average Agility4 gives me 300MB/sec reads and writes in SATA6.0 bus. As for overclocking, my opinion as someone who's been working with PCs for 25+ years is that it's not worth the hassle and headache involved in building a properly stable rig.

 

[Richard Tran]

I like this link...

I like this link...

.... and if you sift around, you'll see where you can compromise and what not.

http://ppbm6.com/Planning.html

 

[JJ Rok]

Thanks for all the help guys. I don't know much about overclocking but I read that the chips are actually designed for it and that its pretty stable. But I don't know how to set it up and would probably purchase the PC through a company that would do that for me.

you will need a high end cooling setup on the processors you'll be over clocking though. What liquid cooling blocks, radiators, pumps, hosing, fittings were you looking at getting my friend? You can build a nice rig for 3k so don't worry!

Scott, I have no clue what is required for overclock cooling. I am planning on getting liquid cooling but not sure what else I would need. SSDs instead of a RAID sounds pretty good. Petri, have you had any issues with the OCZ SSDs? I've read some negative reviews. Thanks again!

 

[Andy Kolb]

I'm currently working on almost the same system.

- Intel i7 3930K with Noctua NH-D14
- ASUS P9X79 WS
- 32GB RAM
- GTX 570
- SSD for OS
- RAID 0 for media

I haven't had any problems so far. Temperatures are very low.

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Petri, have you had any issues with the OCZ SSDs?

Once, more than a year ago. It was nothing serious, no data loss involved. I wanted to update the drive firmware but no matter what I did, it wouldn't happen. A friend had an old 60GB OCZ die on him without warning after 6 months of almost constant use. That's all the personal anecdotes (i.e. not actionable data) I have

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

I'm currently working on almost the same system.

- Intel i7 3930K with Noctua NH-D14
- ASUS P9X79 WS
- 32GB RAM
- GTX 570
- SSD for OS
- RAID 0 for media

I haven't had any problems so far. Temperatures are very low.

How does your system perform on playback? This is pretty much the same as I'm building next month (but I'm swapping the 570 for the 690), I'd be interested to hear your thoughts

 

[Marc Wielage]

I think you will find that the speed of the network and the drives will be the biggest throughput issue, not just the computer and graphics cards per se.

I have worked on numerous 4K projects where we kept everything in 2K all the way up until final delivery. Color correction was all done at 2K, then we swapped out the 2K files for the 4K files, then rendered and delivered 4K. I'm not convinced you actually need to see 4K files during the editing process. For the final screening, sure -- but you need a lot of horsepower (and a capable monitor) to pull that off.

 

[JJ Rok]

I'm currently working on almost the same system.

- Intel i7 3930K with Noctua NH-D14
- ASUS P9X79 WS
- 32GB RAM
- GTX 570
- SSD for OS
- RAID 0 for media

I haven't had any problems so far. Temperatures are very low.

This is basically what I've been thinking about getting. So the Noctua NH-D14 replaces liquid cooling? Also, is there a big difference between the P9X79 PRO and WS?

How does your system perform on playback? This is pretty much the same as I'm building next month (but I'm swapping the 570 for the 690), I'd be interested to hear your thoughts

I'm also curious about playback. I'm still deciding between the 570 2.5GB, 580 3GB, and the 680 4GB. I know the extra RAM will help a lot, but the 570 sounds like a good deal because of price.

I'm not convinced you actually need to see 4K files during the editing process. For the final screening, sure -- but you need a lot of horsepower (and a capable monitor) to pull that off.

I agree Marc. So you think it makes more sense to invest in top quality drives than splurge on a more expensive graphics card or processor? I much rather edit 2k with good playback than choppy 4k. Would you recommend SSDs or HDs? What about RAID?

 

[Andy Kolb]

I've got the Gainward GTX570 with 1280MB.
5K WS 120fps files play flawless in 1/4 resolution and almost in 1/2 resolution in RedcineX.
Unfortunately that's the only format I can test right now.

The NH-D14 does a great job, I never went above 50°C, and that's quite cool.
Liquid cooling on the other hand is quiet.

You can compare the mainboards on the ASUS website.
The WS has some workstation features (Dual LAN, ...) but lacks stuff like WiFi or Bluetooth.

 

[Scott Shropshire]

Well here is a list of parts. This build comes in under 3k for all the hardware to build yourself a great rig to start with and growth with as time moves on and things get outdated.

ASUS Maximus V Gene LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard 209.99
Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770K 339.99
AVEXIR Core DDR3-1333 32GB (8GB X4) CL9 198.99
Seagate Barracuda ST3000DM001 3TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive 149.99 3x
OCZ Vertex 4 VTX4-25SAT3-64G 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)74.99
EVGA 04G-P4-2686-KR GeForce GTX 680 w/ Backplate 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card559.99
CORSAIR HX Series HX1050 1050W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power 209.99
Totat for your main parts: $2,033.91
I just found these prices on newegg someplace else might have them them cheaper. Now onto case and cooling. 1 good site is performance pcs here's a list:

EK Supremacy Universal CPU Liquid Cooling Block - Plexi (EK-Supremacy) 72.99
Swiftech MCP35X-BK™ 12 VDC Pump 84.99
EK-CoolStream RAD XTX (360) radiator 115.95
EK-Multioption RES X2 - 250 Basic 44.95
Monsoon Free Center Compression Fittings, 1/2" x 3/4" Six Pack - Matte Black 38.94 2x
PrimoFlex Pro LRT UV Red Tubing -1/2in. ID X 3/4in. OD 20ftx 2.25per ft add 3 fans and your set my friend! Comes out to 443.82 + 2033.91= 2477.73! Ivy Bridge + 680 4gb + 3x 3tb hdd + ssd OS boot drive!
The case:
Corsair Obsidian Series 800D CC800DW Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case at newegg for 279.99. Hope this helps man any questions don't hesitate

 

[Marc Wielage]

So you think it makes more sense to invest in top quality drives than splurge on a more expensive graphics card or processor? I much rather edit 2k with good playback than choppy 4k. Would you recommend SSDs or HDs? What about RAID?

Well, it's the drives, the network, the whole i/o path. I have dealt with choppy 4K on certain systems, and it's no fun. Heck, even 2K can slow down if the network gets hit with simultaneous users, file operations going on in the background, or just tons of processing going on (like a 20-layer or 20-node shot). As long as the final delivered result is 4K, I don't see where it's a problem to work on 2K proxy files during the initial conform and color-correction, then render using 4K files at the very end of the project.

Michael Cioni's comments on his use of SAS and a 4K workflow are very insightful:

http://michaelcioni.tumblr.com/post/14267159477/dragon-tattoo-4k-di-workflow-overview
http://www.lightiron.com/blog/4k-digital-intermediate

Note that they have the benefit of using Pablos as well as Clipsters, which are dedicated boxes with very fast storage -- and even then, it was a challenge.

 

[Jon Thomasberg]

Ive built 3930k systems, both with the p9x79 deluxe and Rampage IV Extreme -- get the R4E.
Noctuas are good air coolers, but I prefer (and have) Corsair H100 sealed liquid coolers. I did have one go bad, which was RMAd, but otherwise performance has been great.
Overclocking is not for the noob, if you want to venture into that realm, go for it. My suggestion: on a 3930k or 3960x I wouldn't overclock past about 4.5-4.6 for a 24x7 config, and that's if you know what you are doing when tuning it. For a 1st time OC and for a 24x7 stable system, I wouldn't go pushing it too high. I have taken mine past that (up to 5.0), but it proves to shorten the lifespan of your cpu and mem. Keep in mind that this REQUIRES great cooling. I don't think a Noctua air-cooled CPU cooler and a couple of case fans are going to get you far. For the OC'ing that I am talking about, I have them with the H100 liquid cooler and 7 case fans in a HAF-X case with slight positive internal air pressure to keep it all cool.
Mem: get good quality RAM, especially if you are going to OC. For one of those systems, look at 1866 or higher with the lowest CAS timings you can afford.
BTW the OCZ Agility SSDs are not the same as the Vertex series. Vertex is a lot faster, and thus more expensive.
Any more than creating a software RAID0, get a SAS hardware controller like an Areca or ATTO. Huge difference in RAID performance between a hardware and software RAID.
GTX580s are great gaming cards and perform pretty well in Adobe's MPE. Not sure about the 690, as I've not had one.

HTH

 

[JJ Rok]

Thanks for all of the advice everyone. I'm thinking that I will wait on overclocking for now and probably do it down the road. So right now I'm looking at:

cpu: 3930k
mobo: the Rampage Extreme IV (thanks Jon)
liquid cooling
32GB of RAM
120GB SSD - as boot drive

Things I am still questioning:

gpu: GTX570 2.5GB, GTX 580 3GB, or GTX680 4GB?

-- I'm leaning towards the 580 as I've seen a lot of people are using it for 4k editing. If anyone has any specific insight on how these 3 compare it would be awesome. In the end, I would go over budget by $150 to get the 680 4GB if its really a big performance difference. But I would also gladly save $150 and get the 570 if its only slightly less performance.

Cooling: If I have liquid cooling and don't overclock, is one case cooling fan enough?

hard drives: 3 -2/3TB HDs vs 2 500GB SSDs?

-- I know SSDs are much faster but does it make more sense to just get 3 2TB or 3TB HDs for now and wait until SSD prices drop?

-- Is it better right now to edit of SSD or RAID HDs?

Any more than creating a software RAID0, get a SAS hardware controller like an Areca or ATTO. Huge difference in RAID performance between a hardware and software RAID.

Would you recommend RAID0 or 1 if I dont have a backup RAID array? And is a controller necessary for just two drives in RAID1?

 

[Scott Shropshire]

Man look at Ivy Bridge it's so fast and if you're gonna spend 400+ on a motherboard look at the ASUS Maximus V EXTREME LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard for 389.00 on newegg. Also go with the 680 4gb card you'll be happy you did. Consumes less power and therefore produces much less heat than the 580... I have both and the 680 is a great card! I also have both a 3960x and a 3770 (ivy bridge) guess what? The ivy boots faster, loads programs faster, is snappier and more responsive than the 3960x system . Both systems have ssds for boot drives as well. Since you're going to be rendering with your gpu (680 the 2 extra cores in the 3930k won't really benefit you. So save your money on the cpu and spend it on the 680. Now hdds... Go for the 3x 3tb hdd and raid them. This will feed Adobe Premier fast enough for your 4k editing. Forget the ssds for now just get 1 for Windows, all your programs but make sure it still has 30% of its space left after everything is installed or its performance will suffer. I'd look at this ssd for your boot drive, OCZ Vertex 4 VTX4-25SAT3-256G 2.5" 256GB SATA III 209.99 at newegg. Anyway hope this helps my friend and whatever you end up doing I hope that you reach your goal of a killer 4k editing machine for 3k! Take care

 

[Cory Petkovsek]

I doubt you'd notice a difference between the three cards. The bottleneck on your system is going to be the drives. What good is a fast card that can downscale the footage quickly if the footage can't even be read off the drive fast enough? Get only 7200rpm drives or SSDs for work drives. You can buy 5400rpm drives for archival and backup drives.

SSD prices have been dropping for years. You said you're only going to work on small projects, and you're considering getting a raid in the future. I'd rather you get the smaller graphics card, and put your money on a few fast SSDs that are adequate for your storage needs, and a slow, cheap usb harddrive for backup. Edit off the SSDs. Then later invest in a raid 5 of 7200rpm multi-terrabyte drives for larger project storage (or you can skimp down to 5400rpm or variable rate drives if its mostly for online backup and online archives).

Here is my media storage outline:
1. 768GB RAID 5 of 4x256GB SSDs 220mbps read - Boot/System/Editing active projects
2. 500gb 7200rpm SATA - Adobe media cache
3. 6.5TB RAID 5 6x1.5TB 7200rpm SATA 200mbps read, plus 2 other JBODs - Backup, online archival, 5k feature film media
4. Multiple USB drives for additional backup
5. Bluray discs for offline archival of old projects

This is quite adequate for me. #2 was introduced as premiere conforming my assets was saturating my system drive. If I wanted more performance out of this setup; I would convert #1 into two raid 0s, or a single disk and a raid 0 or something and I would expect performance to go up to 300mbps read. However if a drive failed, it would take me at least a full day to rebuild my system and programs which could be very costly at the wrong time, so raid 5 is worth it.

Cory

 

[Richard Tran]

I doubt you'd notice a difference between the three cards. The bottleneck on your system is going to be the drives. What good is a fast card that can downscale the footage quickly if the footage can't even be read off the drive fast enough? Get only 7200rpm drives or SSDs for work drives. You can buy 5400rpm drives for archival and backup drives.

SSD prices have been dropping for years. You said you're only going to work on small projects, and you're considering getting a raid in the future. I'd rather you get the smaller graphics card, and put your money on a few fast SSDs that are adequate for your storage needs, and a slow, cheap usb harddrive for backup. Edit off the SSDs. Then later invest in a raid 5 of 7200rpm multi-terrabyte drives for larger project storage (or you can skimp down to 5400rpm or variable rate drives if its mostly for online backup and online archives).

Here is my media storage outline:
1. 768GB RAID 5 of 4x256GB SSDs 220mbps read - Boot/System/Editing active projects
2. 500gb 7200rpm SATA - Adobe media cache
3. 6.5TB RAID 5 6x1.5TB 7200rpm SATA 200mbps read, plus 2 other JBODs - Backup, online archival, 5k feature film media
4. Multiple USB drives for additional backup
5. Bluray discs for offline archival of old projects

This is quite adequate for me. #2 was introduced as premiere conforming my assets was saturating my system drive. If I wanted more performance out of this setup; I would convert #1 into two raid 0s, or a single disk and a raid 0 or something and I would expect performance to go up to 300mbps read. However if a drive failed, it would take me at least a full day to rebuild my system and programs which could be very costly at the wrong time, so raid 5 is worth it.

Cory

What is your read speed?
220mbps? or 220MBps?

either way.. they're both slow.