How do I shoot a scene that has Super 8 Film Projector going ?

[PatrickFaith]

I have a bunch of shots where I need to shoot actors with a background of a super 8 film going. Since super 8 is 18 fps (and I think i may have some 16 fps normal 8), I'm getting a flicker ... which i guess is ok ... but is not how it looks to the eye.

I was wondering how people shoot when there is a projector going in the background that isn't on the same fps (also btw, even a 24 fps has a "sync" flicker issue where it get's even worse?).

I'm thinking of "cheating" and converting all the super 8 to digital, do some kind of 18 to 24 fps time slow down in AE, then completely cheat and have a digital project "pretend" it's a film projector. Also I'm project across uneven surfaces on edges, so I can't do a simple vfx overlay onto a flat area.

I've seen in tons of films, with projected movies in the background, where i don't think they are using computerized vfx ... how did people do this ?

(on my red camera i am shooting at 24 fps at 180 shutter [ 1/48sec ] )

 

[Les Dittert]

Yep. Project digital . If possible, genlock camera and projector. Without genlock you may be lucky and have the projector running, and wait for the tear of image to hit bottom of screen, and roll then for a short take. Kinda open loop. Shoot projector with Red to see if the tear is objectionable for your taste.

 

[PatrickFaith]

Yep. Project digital . If possible, genlock camera and projector. Without genlock you may be lucky and have the projector running, and wait for the tear of image to hit bottom of screen, and roll then for a short take. Kinda open loop. Shoot projector with Red to see if the tear is objectionable for your taste.

Thanks Les, will do on the digital step (i ordered a super 8 projector that has variable rate, so will just record from the red mid-frame on the sync).

Hmmm ... i don't have a genlock digital projector (scarlet has that but my projector is the standard hdmi) ... so i guess i will project at 60i and wait for the tear then

 

[paulherrin]

if you want, you could speed up the projection then play it all back in slow motion... could be cool. or, it could not be what you'd want.

 

[PatrickFaith]

if you want, you could speed up the projection then play it all back in slow motion... could be cool. or, it could not be what you'd want.

I'm doing this under motion control, and was planning on shoot it twice, once with the projection going, then a second time with the actor(merge it in post). On the projection pass i could record that at a couple of different rates ... could be cool ... thanks for the idea.

 

[jimhare]

Have you tried changing the shuttle angle? You can dial in all kinds of useful stuff. Maybe set it to 1/36 so it doubles the framerate of the film?

 

[Marc Wielage]

You might also consider doing this in green screen and compositing in the "film projection" later on. This is what J.J. Abrams did for Super 8 last year, and it worked out very well. It's cheaper to do than you might think, and will give you more lighting options than having to deal with a photographable image on the set.

 

[PatrickFaith]

>> jimhare: Have you tried changing the shuttle angle? You can dial in all kinds of useful stuff. Maybe set it to 1/36 so it doubles the framerate of the film?

I think i'm going to try multiples (i think the film was shot in 150 degree's) ... i'm noticing a type of "hdrx" when i do this btw ... like my eye sees the scratch even though it should be blurred ... would be nice to do this with a epic ... that way all i'd have to do is set it at 18 fps with 180, then set hdrx at like 3 ... and i'd be good. with the drift, getting the right "hdrx" feel is a bit tricky. I have about 2 hours of super 8, moving that down to about 20 minutes used in the film ... so will be a lot of time ... but worth it i think.

>> Marc Wielage: You might also consider doing this in green screen and compositing in the "film projection" later on. This is what J.J. Abrams did for Super 8 last year, and it worked out very well. It's cheaper to do than you might think, and will give you more lighting options than having to deal with a photographable image on the set.

Arghhh ... more testing but I think the way you say it is the only way to do it that is full feature film quality. More I think about it, i think i'll have to do a "type of green" screen by using the projector then alpha on the blacks (and do this while the set is completely dark.

Thanks guys, I'll post a bit of this after I finish my tests and get another project that can be synchronous & has full frame adjustments The shots are also under motion control which gives just one more headache, as what I do has to align up to multiple takes.