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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I'd like some advice on Steadicam for Scarlet please

Ben Roper

Ben Roper

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Hi All,

I've got a large project on the horizon that will be shot on public streets and will involve constant backward tracking. The shoot will last approx 40 days. I have been considering Steadicam as an option. I've used the handheld Glidecam 4000 for a long time and I'm considering buying an entry level full rig (perhaps even the Glidecam X-22) however there are a few things on my mind;

Do I need training to operate? If so where near London is this done?
What is the professional Glidecam kit like? Anyone have any experience? Steadicam/Glidecam?
*Camera is a small Scarlet setup (7kg)

Greatly appreciate any advice!
Many thanks
 
Zephyr is the way to go. There is absolutely no comparison between a real Steadicam® product and Glidecam. I have a Glidecam X-22, and while it's decent, there are some VERY annoying things both in terms of build quality and operating qualities that make me really wish I had just gotten a Zephyr.

I hosted a "Steadicam" workshop here in Sonoma, and we were open to all brands of stabilizers. The FlyCams, Glidecams etc were outnumbered and majorly outperformed by the Steadicam® products. This was before the Zephyr was released, but the Flyer and Pilot were champs.

If you're making the investment, get a Steadicam. If you're getting a Steadicam, make it a Zephyr. You won't be disappointed.
 
Trevor Meeks said:
Zephyr is the way to go. There is absolutely no comparison between a real Steadicam® product and Glidecam. I have a Glidecam X-22, and while it's decent, there are some VERY annoying things both in terms of build quality and operating qualities that make me really wish I had just gotten a Zephyr.

I hosted a "Steadicam" workshop here in Sonoma, and we were open to all brands of stabilizers. The FlyCams, Glidecams etc were outnumbered and majorly outperformed by the Steadicam® products. This was before the Zephyr was released, but the Flyer and Pilot were champs.

If you're making the investment, get a Steadicam. If you're getting a Steadicam, make it a Zephyr. You won't be disappointed.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The Glidecam X-22 is a better stabilization system at its price point and weight lifting capacity etc. etc.
If you're making the investment, get a GLIDECAM.
 
I have been a Steadicam operator for the last 20 years. I have to say that it is incredibly difficult to pick it up and expect excellent results out of the box.
It takes, not only training, but a lot of practice to master and get your body used to the strain. 40 days of shooting, if it's all Steadicam all day every day, is grueling, even for seasoned operators. It's doable, but not a walk in the park.
I would recommend hiring an op if the budget allows. If you're set in doing it yourself, start yesterday. Find an operator in your area and hire him for a day. Learn the basics and go out and practice. practice everyday until you start your shoot.
forget glidecam. The Steadicam line is of course good, but I would take a look at the new Pro-Gpi line up with a lighter battery base and the new 2 canister arm.
above all, best of luck!
 
Martin Stevens said:
I disagree. The Glidecam X-22 is a better stabilization system at its price point and weight lifting capacity etc. etc.
If you're making the investment, get a GLIDECAM.
Click to expand...

In all fairness, Martin... you're the president and founder of Glidecam... you have to say that. Have you actually used a Zephyr? Any other real Steadicam® units?

The build and operational quality of the X-22 (and every other Glidecam that I've used) is inferior to Tiffen's/Steadicam's products.

It's great that there are other options out there (heck, that's why I bought the X22 — it was cheaper and had the most comparable performance to the Flyer at the time) but if you're going to make the investment, Steadicam or the higher end (Pro-GPI etc) units are far farrrrr :thumbup: better.
 
Thanks for the thoughts everyone! Unfortunately price will have to be the first consideration, as at this point I will not be making my whole living from being an op.

Does anyone have any opinions on booking for a professional training course? (Region of London, UK)
 
Optex will either have the info you need. Steadicam workshops can be rather sporadic, but they could give you contact numbers to seasoned ops...
 
Ben Roper said:
Do I need training to operate?
Click to expand...
you bet,
and as with any craft a lot of practice, maybe you're a naturally born steadicam operator, but if not, to get a decent results will take you a bit more than couple months.
when i was starting flying I tried many rigs, from cheap Chinese models and up, now I own two steadicam rigs and both are from Steadicam. Great quality, fast and easy rig adjustments, the only reason for me to buy from any other manufacturer if I'll need a back mounted system;
but of course you always go with your budget, and before you'll buy any rig you have to try it, loaded, for about 15-20 min,
and don't let anyone to talk you out,
best.
 
Daniel is correct in everything he says. I will add my 15+ experience as a steadicam operator, and say that if you are really into buying a rig and so all the above , the best budget and also quality rig is from action products with out breaking the bank.
But if I was you , I would hire a steadicam operator and forget all these. Steadicam is an art, not only equipment quality, it takes a long time to learn how to shoot and produce acceptable images, and there is always the possibility that your body wont take it, as many people discovered the hard way that their back is not capable of taking the strain thats needed. In other word forcing your self to learn something and be able to produce decent shots, is not definite that it will work even if buying the best rig out there.
90% of the art is the operator and not the rig.
good luck

edit: its very difficult to choose with hands on, trying rigs and compare whats best, while you have never flyed a steadicam rig before in your life , and if this is your first time it will feel very uncomfortable and akward no matter what.
you have to know how to fly it to then be able to say which one is better from you..Of cource you will be able to tell if one is bad made and cheap than another high end but thats another matter.
 
constantine Tirintzis said:
Daniel is correct in everything he says. I will add my 15+ experience as a steadicam operator, and say that if you are really into buying a rig and so all the above , the best budget and also quality rig is from action products with out breaking the bank.
But if I was you , I would hire a steadicam operator and forget all these. Steadicam is an art, not only equipment quality, it takes a long time to learn how to shoot and produce acceptable images, and there is always the possibility that your body wont take it, as many people discovered the hard way that their back is not capable of taking the strain thats needed. In other word forcing your self to learn something and be able to produce decent shots, is not definite that it will work even if buying the best rig out there.
90% of the art is the operator and not the rig.
good luck

edit: its very difficult to choose with hands on, trying rigs and compare whats best, while you have never flyed a steadicam rig before in your life , and if this is your first time it will feel very uncomfortable and akward no matter what.
you have to know how to fly it to then be able to say which one is better from you..Of cource you will be able to tell if one is bad made and cheap than another high end but thats another matter.
Click to expand...



100% AGREED!
 
If you've been flying the glidecam hand held for years then you don't need training. I got myself an x-10 and fly my scarlet with great results, for days on end. I don't want to make the art of flying sound less than it is, but I do think there is a lot of "if you're not a seasoned pro and don't have the best then don't bother" going around. It's bullshit. If you're already a good hand held flyer, the you'll have no problem adjusting to an afforable Glidecam suite/arm/vest. The better units (Zepher) are well worth the money, but on a budget, it's up to you, operator.

Matt
 
I agree with Daniel, he's right.

Matthew Scott said:
If you've been flying the glidecam hand held for years then you don't need training.

Matt
Click to expand...

I don't question Matthews talent but in most cases, proper training and instruction is absolutely vital when you start. If not, unexperienced people often adopt bad techniques and BAD POSTURE when they operate ! And bad habits are most difficult to get rid of. This is something that can't be overlooked, certainly not if you want to operate 40 days on end and more ! Consider this if you really want to operate day in and day out and stay healthy.
Anyway, best of luck with your project.
 
Aside from simply doing a professional job with a steadicam (art aside) there is also the matter of safety. When days are long and the steadicam is turned to more and more often to pick up time, and the director wants the action faster and faster, you have a recipe for an ugly fall, and falling with a steadicam can be quite dangerous. You really have to know what you are doing on these things.
 
The handheld stabilizer systems and the body worn systems only have the same principle in common. In praxis they can be very different from an operating standpoint.
The full size rigs, besides the obvious weight increase, and all the issues that this brings to your body, have more inertia from the larger mass. Handheld systems have very little mass and with that little inertia. That alone makes them very different animals.
It's like handholding an HVX200 vs a Panavision Gold with 1000ft mag. They are both handheld, but very different from each other.
Back when I started in Denmark in the 90's, it took me just short of 2 years practicing before I felt comfortable in taking someone's money on a professional set.
But go for it, practice, practice and you'll get there. Set high goals. My goal was to make my Steadi shots indistinguishable from a dolly shot. Still working on that...
 
I had experience with hand held Steadicam and I can attest that my Zephyr is a whole other beast. Didn't hurt to have some experience, but it didn't help all that much either. Hard on the body and takes practice to really get it.
 
This is one of those catch 22s where you have to have been doing it for a while to know what you like and what you don't. Look at 5 serious ops and you will see 5 different rigs. If you can rent a little rig like a Zephyr for a week, and then maybe rent a glidecam for the same, you will get a valuable weeks worth of practice, and you can figure out what you like and what you don't about different rigs. You will also figure out whether it's something you want to pursue. Allmost any rental house will do a 3 day week, and if they won't do that, maybe rent for a friday, PU thursday return monday kind of a deal.

Nick
 
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