Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Black Magic Design Cinema Camera - update

Status
Not open for further replies.
"It has higher dynamic range? I thought Scarlet/Epic was 13.5 and BM was 13."

The last I heard, the MX sensor tested at 11.9 stops:

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/awilt/story/nab_2011_-_scce_charts/

Is there some independent test that confirms this increase to 13.5?

The BM is somewhere between 13 and 14 (correction, the sensor manufacturer, I believe claims 15 for the sensor in optimal conditions), and the camera hasn't released yet. We shall see. I have no problem putting my faith in the new Dragon sensor, with 15 stops claimed. But I like the highlight rolloff on the BM best right now.
 
Les Dittert said:
OK, so the solution is to transcode the whole SSD when it's removed from the camera.
All takes.
Remember, the transcoding would actually be faster than a copy to a single Sata drive, because of the 5X data size reduction.
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying. That sounds like a decent way to go and beats the hell out of prores. You win this round Les....
 
Joe G. said:
"It has higher dynamic range? I thought Scarlet/Epic was 13.5 and BM was 13."

The last I heard, the MX sensor tested at 11.9 stops:

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/awilt/story/nab_2011_-_scce_charts/

Is there some independent test that confirms this increase to 13.5?

The BM is somewhere between 13 and 14 (correction, the sensor manufacturer, I believe claims 15 for the sensor in optimal conditions), and the camera hasn't released yet. We shall see. I have no problem putting my faith in the new Dragon sensor, with 15 stops claimed. But I like the highlight rolloff on the BM best right now.
Click to expand...

That test was for the R1MX which didn't have a 16bit image. The Epic and Scarlet do indeed have more range than that test shows. I look forward to seeing what BM can do in a third party test.
 
Think of all the wonderful 16mm glass available for it once PL mounts are available!
 
Is that correct, its not interchangeable lenses? or PL?

My boo boo. Its takes EF lenses but not sure about PL?
 
Steven Chill said:
Is that correct, its not interchangeable lenses? or PL?

My boo boo. Its takes EF lenses but not sure about PL?
Click to expand...

It has an EF mount on it, so you can put all the lenses you want on it...as long as they're EF mount, or can be adapted to EF (which excludes most PL lenses). No interchangeable mounts, unless you go Hot Rod Cameras style and take a hacksaw to it. And yeah, the sensor is bigger than S16 anyway, like the Epic is bigger than S35.
 
Steven Chill said:
Is that correct, its not interchangeable lenses? or PL?

My boo boo. Its takes EF lenses but not sure about PL?
Click to expand...

EF mount only...for now.

You can actually get for not a lot of cash, an EF lens mount for a lot of the popular optimo zooms and for the two arri LW zooms as well. Plus of course the CP's.

jb
 
Hey John, honestly, how does this handle compared to R1mx/Scarlet (I'm assuming you've used one or both)? I'm guessing that it's cleaner/sharper than mysterium-x at 2k and maybe even 3k, but 4k would have an obvious edge. What are your thoughts?

p.s. Try not to be biased ;)
 
I wish it had a Nikon mount :(

John Brawley said:
EF mount only...for now.

You can actually get for not a lot of cash, an EF lens mount for a lot of the popular optimo zooms and for the two arri LW zooms as well. Plus of course the CP's.

jb
Click to expand...
 
Mike P. said:
Hey John, honestly, how does this handle compared to R1mx/Scarlet (I'm assuming you've used one or both)? I'm guessing that it's cleaner/sharper than mysterium-x at 2k and maybe even 3k, but 4k would have an obvious edge. What are your thoughts?

p.s. Try not to be biased ;)
Click to expand...

Mike I'm not sure what you mean by handle ? You talking in the hand or image wise ?

I'm guessing you mean image...

I haven't shot anything side by side. I've used R1MX and EPIC in the past. A lot.

My views are guestimations at best, based on my prior experience. I'd say it's the near equal for DR without HDRX of course. The resolution isn't the same for sure, but the image does have a lovely softness to it in 1920. I don't mean softness from a resolution perspective, just that it's a gental image. It's not as *processed* as a lot of other cameras.

Certainly if you're comparing EPIC / Scarlet and wanting to deliver ar 1920 there wouldn't be much to it res wise to pick, unless you're looking to crop shots etc. And I think for TV and WEB delivery it's going to be a very capable camera within a certain set of parameters. If rolling shutter that you see on a 5D bothers you and the smaller sensor size bothers you, and the lack of higher frame rates bothers you or if you want to see in the dark, then this aint your camera.

But for sync speeds it puts out a mighty nice "alexa-like" image that works great @1920. It's missing a lot of features you would expect to get on more expensive cameras, but, well...they're more expensive cameras. Hopefully most of those kinds of things will be added into the camera through software over time. At the moment you could call it very paired back and simple in what you can do in the menus....things like histograms are only available through the thunderbolt port with a laptop...

It's been described as a "plastic toy" cam but I think most people are genuinely surprised when they get one in the hand.

Bias ? Well, sure I was lucky enough to be invited to help build a camera. I guess it makes me biased because some of my feedback is in there. They had already locked in the form factor by the time I got to see it, but I've really enjoyed getting to know the engineers and seeing the huge hurdles they have to overcome. Now I really understand why they shake their heads when people say interchangeable battery, 60 FPS, 4K or S35 sensor....

It's so easy to demand those features when you don't know what it takes to make it. And that's been cool as I say, and has broadened my own understanding of the digital imaging pipeline at a very fundamental level.

Like anything...it's all possible...but they were targeting a very certain price.

Their aim in making this camera was to give people a genuine alternative to 5Dmk2 and I think they've more than made a compelling case for replacing DSLR's. And they've done it in a very short amount of time, with no prior form for making cameras....

jb
 
That's exactly what I was looking for John, thanks. Just wanted to know how the image "handles" itself compared to RED. Pretty radical for $3k...

...and I was only kidding about any bias.
 
Andy White said:
Yes - I think the BMC will end up being a crash cam or B cam (when there's not another RED camera on set).

At the price, it's a no-brainer (less than my Bomb EVF) - LOL.

But, it's being hailed as the next big thing (RAW for the no-budget crowd)... so it'll be interesting to see what caveats the system comes with (from the already noted ergonomics and build quality) - through to rigging/camera support right through to lens choice (watch the lens/FOV sensor crop 'debate' rage on - LOL) plus a more complex post for users to wrap their heads around
When they're out in the wild - and teh dust has settled... it'll be interesting to see what the BMC can really do (and deliver on).
Click to expand...

I feel the no budget crowd will get tired of having to grade every freaking shot. The beauty of the gh2 7d is that they make"good" really easy.
 
Timur Civan said:
I feel the no budget crowd will get tired of having to grade every freaking shot. The beauty of the gh2 7d is that they make"good" really easy.
Click to expand...

We have yet to see what the camera produces in 'Video Dynamic Range' mode. That might suit the needs of users looking for a low maintenance approach to grading.
 
Mike Lary said:
We have yet to see what the camera produces in 'Video Dynamic Range' mode. That might suit the needs of users looking for a low maintenance approach to grading.
Click to expand...

I have to say the "video" curve is pretty damn nice. It still needs a teak occasionally usually just opening up the bottom end, but you could get away with it most of the time.

jb
 
John Brawley said:
I have to say the "video" curve is pretty damn nice. It still needs a teak occasionally usually just opening up the bottom end, but you could get away with it most of the time.

jb
Click to expand...

It sounds like this camera could have a crossover market between the DSLR crowd (at least those who are willing to move to a smaller sensor) and RAW shooters who are on a tight budget. I'm looking forward to seeing some A/B Film Curve/ Video Curve comparisons and of course getting my hands on some RAW footage. Your samples and reviews have definitely been eye-openers.
 
Hopefully the trend of motion imaging cams product design following principles of stills cams design...ends soon.
This way we have small motion cameras piling up on the market with inadequate ergonomics for shooting motion, requiring rigs for everything.


Small motion imaging camera dependence on rigs - their assembly, setup time, size and parts pampering is:

- partially defeating the purpose of a small camera (example: the need of external handle when size-wise you should be able to grab the camera by its body);

- catering DSLR crowd, their "habits" and DSLR ergonomics with a different tool, with different principles and requirements;

- a paradox


In case of BMDCC, one might make an exception keeping in mind targeted price point. 12 bit raw & RT Prores scaled & compressed on-board in a fully functional camera...I'd say even basic settings, a recording button and nothing else would be pretty reasonable.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top