Cutting Corners

[BRANDON JAMESON]

Ok, I know this thread is gonna get some panties in a major twist, but here goes.....

It is so disheartening to see folks paying for RED cameras and then cheaping out on the needed "right stuff" to complete their kits.

Please understand that I am not at ALL adverse to experimentation...artists THRIVE on it....

BUT, Here are some key items that you need to think about BEFORE you buy, rent or borrow a camera.


RED ROCKET: is the "LAB" or the "DECK" that most cameras depend on to complete the job of processing the image effectively.

If you cant afford it, consider that before your purchase.

LENSES: are the "eyes" of your camera's soul, if you are cheaping out on your glass, because you cant afford to put appropriate lenses on your camera, consider renting a few REAL lenses before you start trying out bad glass and describing your tepid images as "looking vintage".

If you cant afford it, consider that before your purchase.

CABLES: Are an expendable line item that are the LIFELINES of your camera and are a HUGE part of the integrity needed by your camera to output a dependable image.

RED cables are dependable and when they fail , as all cables do, they need to be replaced.

It only makes sense to have an extra set to ensure that one cable going down doesn't stop your production cold.

If you cant afford it, consider that before your purchase.

INCIDENT AND SPOT METER: Is an indespensible tool when you are shooting most ANYTHING, period.
RED gives us wonderful tools in-camera to ensure a "fat negative", but the addition of a spot meter on set ,will give you the precise exposure for more dependable results and excellent images.

If you cant afford it, consider that before your purchase.


WAVE FORM MONITOR: To truly "nail" your exposure, color integrity, and legal limits of your image, you need a REAL wave form monitor, not a software based emulation of the hardware itself.

If you cant afford it, consider that before your purchase.


For ASC members and seasoned cinematographers , the idea of having the right tools to do the job, is not a new or novel idea..just common sense and good practice when producing pictures of quality and technical excellence.


In the words of jazz great Louis Armstrong, on his secret to brilliance: "First you get gifted by the Lord with talent, then you ensemble what you need to technically produce great music: A solid education, a great instrument and the time to practice, practice,practice.
Only THEN will you have the FREEDOM to really CREATE."

What else do YOU consider an essential in your kit?

 

[Stephen Mick]

No twisted panties here, but the only thing I agree with above is not cheaping out on cables. Everything else is purely subjective in need, depending how you want your images to look and how you go about getting there.

 

[Kevin Marshall]

I view the Rocket as much more of a luxury, unless you're really facing such a volume of footage and quickness of deadlines to require one. And I'm assuming you're talking about a waveform monitor in post (which is pretty crucial) - on set, there's no reason to monitor Rec.709 levels when you're shooting RAW. Really all you should need is a light meter, as well as the on-camera tools.

Lenses are also, above a certain level of mechanical quality, vastly a creative choice. For some projects, I much prefer the look of something like Super Baltars or Leica Rs. Not everything looks better on Master Primes. And it also depends on the job - if I'm covering an all-day event where I need a wide zoom range, you can bet your ass I'll take a Canon-L over an Optimo - I only have one back.

I do sympathize, though - I've certainly been the victim of people not having proper support gear, and it makes my job anywhere from infinitely harder to near-impossible.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Ok, I know this thread is gonna get some panties in a major twist, but here goes.....

It is so disheartening to see folks paying for RED cameras and then cheaping out on the needed "right stuff" to complete their kits.

Please understand that I am not at ALL adverse to experimentation...artists THRIVE on it....

BUT, Here are some key items that you need to think about BEFORE you buy, rent or borrow a camera.


RED ROCKET: is the "LAB" or the "DECK" that most cameras depend on to complete the job of processing the image effectively.

If you cant afford it, consider that before your purchase.

LENSES: are the "eyes" of your camera's soul, if you are cheaping out on your glass, because you cant afford to put appropriate lenses on your camera, consider renting a few REAL lenses before you start trying out bad glass and describing your tepid images as "looking vintage".

If you cant afford it, consider that before your purchase.

CABLES: Are an expendable line item that are the LIFELINES of your camera and are a HUGE part of the integrity needed by your camera to output a dependable image.

RED cables are dependable and when they fail , as all cables do, they need to be replaced.

It only makes sense to have an extra set to ensure that one cable going down doesn't stop your production cold.

If you cant afford it, consider that before your purchase.

INCIDENT AND SPOT METER: Is an indespensible tool when you are shooting most ANYTHING, period.
RED gives us wonderful tools in-camera to ensure a "fat negative", but the addition of a spot meter on set ,will give you the precise exposure for more dependable results and excellent images.

If you cant afford it, consider that before your purchase.


WAVE FORM MONITOR: To truly "nail" your exposure, color integrity, and legal limits of your image, you need a REAL wave form monitor, not a software based emulation of the hardware itself.

If you cant afford it, consider that before your purchase.


For ASC members and seasoned cinematographers , the idea of having the right tools to do the job, is not a new or novel idea..just common sense and good practice when producing pictures of quality and technical excellence.


In the words of jazz great Louis Armstrong, on his secret to brilliance: "First you get gifted by the Lord with talent, then you ensemble what you need to technically produce great music: A solid education, a great instrument and the time to practice, practice,practice.
Only THEN will you have the FREEDOM to really CREATE."

What else you YOU consider an essential in your kit?

We have shot and delivered high budget commercials and music videos with no Red Rocket, no waveform monitor (100% useless if you know how to meter Raw properly). The rest I agree with. For file deliverables software waveforms are 100% enough - who cares what your graphic card is outputting, as long as your monitor is well calibrated to it - the file is all that matters and software waveforms (and other software viewing tools) are all you need.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

LOL

I kinda work on the extremes.
Big budget (littelarily tens of mills of $)

And no budget

I thrive in making the equipment I have at hand work for the situation it is supposed to work with..

Different approaches

Many different approaches.

And I love to see how I can make it work for different situations...

But whether one likes what comes out or not, well that's due to many factors... Where equipment isn't the main.

Cheers!

G

 

[Robino_J]

I prefer the look of software debayer. I am very happy without RR. "If you cant afford a waveform monitor consider that before your purchase.." Huh?? I would say if you absolutely need a waveform monitor to properly expose you should reconsider your career as a cinematographer.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I prefer the look of software debayer. I am very happy without RR. "If you cant afford a waveform monitor consider that before your purchase.." Huh?? I would say if you absolutely need a waveform monitor to properly expose you should reconsider your career as a cinematographer.

Renderfarms doesn't have to cost more than a rocket, and you get DRX as part of THAT deal.

Takes a bit more space and isn't as good for playback, though, but the rocket is underpowered for realtime from 5k anyways...

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hmmm... While I do totally agree that many owner/operators are skimping on their kits in places they should not, I have to disagree on some of the points made.

The Rocket is by no means a required item. It is indeed necessary for some workflows, but you have to consider that many of us shot and finished projects with the RED One long before there was a Rocket card to buy. Not only that, but computers have more than doubled in power since then and software has much increased support for native R3D support and related abilities. I would recommend a Rocket card, but I would also recommend a lot of new camera owners on a budget spend that money on other things first. Having a Rocket is nice, but if your workflow is ineffective without it, then you're probably doing something wrong. Where most owner/ops are going to run into a situation of needing a Rocket is if they need to deliver full transcodes or dailies on the fly, on set, but that's getting into a different realm of responsibility. A pro RED DIT that markets themselves as such, should have a Rocket or two in their arsenal of equipment... I know several of those people and many don't even own a camera.

Waveform monitor... Hardly necessary. In fact, I would say that using a waveform to gauge exposure of the camera is going to be more of a hinderance. First of all, you're RECORDING RAW. A waveform monitor can only monitor the processed / baked output in HD resolution from a monitor output on the camera. With that in mind, I agree with Rob above when he says the waveform is 100% useless if you know how to meter RAW properly. You will only be metering within the confines of whatever colorspace, gamma curve and look you have defined. Do you use a waveform to expose a film camera? The best exposure tools are right there on the camera already.

There was a discussion on here not long ago about using a waveform monitor and a few examples of where it can be useful. One that several people offered up is the use of a waveform for quickly ascertaining how even a green/blue screen is lit. I guess that works for some people, but I even went and tried this after that discussion and it didn't do it for me. I can determine my screen exposure just as fast, actually faster, with the on-camera exposure check and tools. I find waveform monitors to be more useful in post for balancing, grading, etc.., when I have an actual target space defined that I can work within.

 

[BRANDON JAMESON]

I view the Rocket as much more of a luxury, unless you're really facing such a volume of footage and quickness of deadlines to require one. And I'm assuming you're talking about a waveform monitor in post (which is pretty crucial) - on set, there's no reason to monitor Rec.709 levels when you're shooting RAW. Really all you should need is a light meter, as well as the on-camera tools.

Lenses are also, above a certain level of mechanical quality, vastly a creative choice. For some projects, I much prefer the look of something like Super Baltars or Leica Rs. Not everything looks better on Master Primes. And it also depends on the job - if I'm covering an all-day event where I need a wide zoom range, you can bet your ass I'll take a Canon-L over an Optimo - I only have one back.

I do sympathize, though - I've certainly been the victim of people not having proper support gear, and it makes my job anywhere from infinitely harder to near-impossible.

YUP, The waveform monitor is for POST... sorry if i dd not make that clear!

 

[Timur Civan]

I just bought a Rocket, i consider it as crucial as the Brain itself. Dont know how i did anything without it.

 

[Yousuf Abbasi]

No twisted panties here, but the only thing I agree with above is not cheaping out on cables. Everything else is purely subjective in need, depending how you want your images to look and how you go about getting there.

+ 1

 

[Shane Kelly]

Rocket, nice to have but not absolutely necessary,
Cables: absolutely. You need backups - they will fail.
Lenses, pretty much your choice. Shoot on what is appropriate to the job. Not everything has to be super sharp.
I can't agree with you on a meter. I've been shooting for 25 years and my meter rarely comes out any more. Understand raw, your histogram, and most importantly, your eyes and you will get a good exposure.
Waveform? I have one on my monitor that I use to get an even greenscreen, otherwise I haven't used one on set in 15 years.

If you are trying to educate people "before their purchase" I'd go with: a good tripod and head, v-mount batteries, sliding baseplate and maybe a a 17"monitor. All of these and many other accessories I'd put before a waveform monitor or even a light meter.
So pretty much the only thing that I agree with you on is that you should have backup cables.

 

[Marc Wielage]

It is so disheartening to see folks paying for RED cameras and then cheaping out on the needed "right stuff" to complete their kits.

Don't forget sound.

I'm really amazed by the number of people who plunk down $40,000 for an Epic and then ask questions like "which $99 microphone is the best to stick on the top of my camera?"

 

[BRANDON JAMESON]

Don't forget sound.

I'm really amazed by the number of people who plunk down $40,000 for an Epic and then ask questions like "which $99 microphone is the best to stick on the top of my camera?"

AWESOME ADD, MARC...ANY PARTICULAR ITEMS YOU'DE LIKE TO INCLUDE?

 

[PatrickFaith]

Don't forget sound.
I'm really amazed by the number of people who plunk down $40,000 for an Epic and then ask questions like "which $99 microphone is the best to stick on the top of my camera?"

From the posts I see, I'm thinking a lot of the people are using the epic/scarlet primarily for photography, then a bunch of other stuff and as a motion picture camera as a distant third. Crap sound is a good example of this type of use case, another is not using PL lenses, also seems a ton of people are run&gun versus jib/tripod/dolly. Also seems a minimal interest in vfx and compositing, etc ...

I think it's great that such a wide group of people are using the camera, makes for this user group to be extremely dynamic. The discussions are coming from such different viewpoints, that it makes some of the threads a bit crazy. I think with red one, it was 90% indie with 10% major feature ... so it's a huge swing in the community. Another group that overlays with the "photography" click is people in the industry, like the finance and distribution guys, who are getting the camera's primarily to learn what the hell is going on in the industry - that in the past were not allowed to touch the camera and/or sound equipment. One clique though that I wounder about, are those that try to start a business by getting a single epic/scarlet ... it reminds me of the hopeless screenwriter cliques (a lot of screen writer scene is a massive scam, i.e. weekend seminars so you too can write a hit movie).