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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

strange problem with Epic SDI output

Ale Reynoso

Ale Reynoso

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Hi:
Happened a couple of days ago: We couldn´t get signal from the SDI out to a Panasonic 1710 monitor. "No input signal".
Checked everything.
We then used a decimator HD SDI-SD composite downconverter to check if it was the camera that wasn´t outputting SDI signal or a failure in the monitor: using the SD input in the monitor, we had image. So the Epic SDI out was working.
Just by chance we checked again the HD-SDI input in the Pana, BUT USING THE ACTIVE LOOP TRHOUGH ON THE DECIMATOR, and we had HD-SDI signal! checked again straight from camera and nothing...
Is it that the new firmware outputs only true progressive and the monitor doesn´t support it? (this system was working a couple of weeks ago with an earlier firmware). And the decimator can output 50i or 60i? (I couldn´t check the decimator settings)
Stranger was that we did this test at 23.98 fps, and when we set the camera to 25fps, the signal went off again. ¿?...
Using the false colour, we lost signal too, but this time the monitor said "not compatible signal".
I´m still scratching my head.
I will appreciate any input
Thanks!
 
Thank you for bringing this up Mr.Reynoso

I absolutely want to ask the same question. Why active loop thru give signal while straight HD-SDI is not giving any.

Something about P and PsF ?

Rivai
 
If it's a monitor that only accepts PsF, the Red nor Epic will work with it as Red products only push out true progressive images.

hope the info is useful...
 
Colin Hubick said:
If it's a monitor that only accepts PsF, the Red nor Epic will work with it as Red products only push out true progressive images.

hope the info is useful...
Click to expand...

Puzzling, as Panasonic monitors generally will accept both True Progressive as well as PsF signals.
 
i today had also some really strange hd-sdi problems (since upgrading to 3.3). I wanted to use the loop through op my dp6 with hd-sdi and it didn't work, 3 days ago shooting on the older firmware it worked... Didn't try to roll back and test it, but definitely something changed in the sdi settings.

Another thing. I tried to send the 1080p hd sdi signal directly to a tvlogic 071w, no image. But when i changed it in the epic to 720, i got an image. The strange thing is, is that in the release firmware 3.2.16) 1080p worked with exact the same monitor...So quite sure there is something strange...
 
Max M. said:
i today had also some really strange hd-sdi problems (since upgrading to 3.3). I wanted to use the loop through op my dp6 with hd-sdi and it didn't work, 3 days ago shooting on the older firmware it worked... Didn't try to roll back and test it, but definitely something changed in the sdi settings.

Another thing. I tried to send the 1080p hd sdi signal directly to a tvlogic 071w, no image. But when i changed it in the epic to 720, i got an image. The strange thing is, is that in the release firmware 3.2.16) 1080p worked with exact the same monitor...So quite sure there is something strange...
Click to expand...

In 3.3.3 which refresh rate are you attempting to drive the display?
 
I just did some more testing with the hmdi and hd sdi connections and found out the problem is complete random :S It looks like a refresh problem dough. I have hdmi in 50hz and hd-sdi in auto of 50hz.

During my testing i noticed it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't work, complete random. Solution is for the let the epic send out a different signal. So for example when the hd-sdi @1080p @ 50 hz doesn't work, i changed it to 720p, monitors reload, it works, switch back to 1080p and then that suddenly does work. Or a change of the refresh rate helps to get a picture.. So i seems like somehow the hd-sdi/hdmi sometimes don't give a picture to the monitor, and when a settings is changed they do

(just tried it with the dp6, tvlogic attached through hd-sdi and hdmi, so did some good testing)
 
Checked again the Panasonic manual and it supports true progressive signals. And apparently there´s not any menu item that could select between p and PsF.
So it is still a mistery (as I said this set worked just fine with an earlier firmware. I think is 3.2.16 now).
I will ask to the owner if he could find something.
Thanks!
 
Ale Reynoso said:
Checked again the Panasonic manual and it supports true progressive signals. And apparently there´s not any menu item that could select between p and PsF.
So it is still a mistery (as I said this set worked just fine with an earlier firmware. I think is 3.2.16 now).
I will ask to the owner if he could find something.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

The Panasonic 1710 monitor doesn't appear to support 3G hd-sdi at 1080p50 or 1080p60.
ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/business/provideo/brochures/BT-LH2550_brochure.pdf

In 3.3 the camera is driving at 3G rates.

You may want to try setting the camera's hd-sdi output rates manually to 1080p25 or 1080p30.
 
The Panasonic 1710 monitor doesn't appear to support 3G hd-sdi at 1080p50 or 1080p60.
You may want to try setting the camera's hd-sdi output rates manually to 1080p25 or 1080p30.
Click to expand...

Thanks Matt, yes that probably is the underlying issue.
 
cool, good to know! it seems to work with the dp6, is runs way better on 1080p 25hz than 50hz, although the specs say it's 3g enabled, seems like a solution, thanks for the quick answer!
 
another day, new problems... The lcd and hd sdi start stuttering really bad, never had that on my epic before. So decided to switch off the hdmi output, stutter gone... Is seems like the epic driving hd sdi, hdmi, and the lcd at the same time is too much for the current build... Hopes this problem is solved soon
 
While I haven't had the issues listed here, I do have another issue with my 2 Panny 1710's, I can't get the waveform display to work with the EPIC's SDI out. My other cameras (HPX2000, AF100, HVX170) that have SDI outs work fine. I see picture (a really GOOD looking picture) but it won't let me display the waveform overlays.

Any ideas?

Matt
 
...I do have another issue with my 2 Panny 1710's, I can't get the waveform display to work with the EPIC's SDI out....
..I see picture (a really GOOD looking picture) but it won't let me display the waveform overlays.
Click to expand...

I can only confirm that we've also seen this behavior before, have you asked Panasonic about it?

What resolution & frame rate are you feeding out?
 
cool, good to know! it seems to work with the dp6, is runs way better on 1080p 25hz than 50hz, although the specs say it's 3g enabled, seems like a solution, thanks for the quick answer!
Click to expand...

Good to hear. One other idea - when you get a chance, check the specs on your HD-SDI cable, 3GHz data rates are more demanding on the cable specs than 1.5GHz.
 
BTW, I have the same trouble displaying a waveform on my Panasonic 1710 when connected to an ALEXA or any HDMI source (Canon, Sony FS100). So this problem is not limited to RED Epic, but is a Panasonic limitation. I would love to hear a solution as I prefer to use a waveform over the histogram in the RED Epic touchscreen.
 
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