Mixing Epic and Alexa Footage, Help!

[steve green]

Hey guys,
I'm on a shoot right now and the producer has a what is probably a simple question for all you (but for me, not so much). We've shot Epic R3D files and Alexa ProRes 4444 files and need to edit them in the same sequence on Avid. Also we plan to color correct on a Baselight. What's the procedure for doing the edit and final color correction with the native files?

 

[Michael Totten]

You could transcode the R3D files to ProRes 4444 (to match Alexa's codec) and then import all footage into Avid via AMA.

 

[Tom.Wong]

convert all files, r3d and alexa into dnxhd mxf. whatever flavor the post house is comfortable with. usually they'll be fine with dnxhd 36 for the offline edit. if you get a good dit on board he or she can do their best with color matching, and if they have the hardware and software, they can transcode it all on set with matching color baked into the dailies.

when you online in baselight they'll probably convert everything into DPX stacks, and just work in redlog film/redcolor 3, and log c for the pro res. that portion you really won't have to worry about, but that's probably the most likely choice of what they'll do. or they'll go native r3d and alexa pro res and just work in a 1080 timeline.

food for thought though, alexa and epic don't mix on the timeline too well in my opinion. unless you're shooting everything with hdrx. the native dynamic range of the alexa is higher than the epic, thus all your lighting decisions are gonna be way different, and highlight rolloff/shadow detail are gonna look completely different. and the epic is gonna look a lot sharper than the alexa for a lot of obvious reasons. i'd recommend doing some camera tests if you can before you go forward with this.

they are very different cameras.

 

[steve green]

You could transcode the R3D files to ProRes 4444 (to match Alexa's codec) and then import all footage into Avid via AMA.

Michael,
Thanks for the quick reply, is there any way in which when he does the final color correction on the Baselight he can be using the R3D files raw? Please forgive my post production ignorance.

 

[Sean McAllister]

I would transcode all your footage to dnxhd 36 for your edit in Avid and then when you go in for color correction they will go back to the original files.

 

[steve green]

convert all files, r3d and alexa into dnxhd mxf. whatever flavor the post house is comfortable with. usually they'll be fine with dnxhd 36 for the offline edit. if you get a good dit on board he or she can do their best with color matching, and if they have the hardware and software, they can transcode it all on set with matching color baked into the dailies.

when you online in baselight they'll probably convert everything into DPX stacks, and just work in redlog film/redcolor 3, and log c for the pro res. that portion you really won't have to worry about, but that's probably the most likely choice of what they'll do. or they'll go native r3d and alexa pro res and just work in a 1080 timeline.



food for thought though, alexa and epic don't mix on the timeline too well in my opinion. unless you're shooting everything with hdrx. the native dynamic range of the alexa is higher than the epic, thus all your lighting decisions are gonna be way different, and highlight rolloff/shadow detail are gonna look completely different. and the epic is gonna look a lot sharper than the alexa for a lot of obvious reasons. i'd recommend doing some camera tests if you can before you go forward with this.

they are very different cameras.

Thanks you Tom, I'm passing that along now......Because it's kind of Greek to me.......

 

[steve green]

I would transcode all your footage to dnxhd 36 for your edit in Avid and then when you go in for color correction they will go back to the original files.

But how do they go from the edited sequence back to the original files.

 

[Tehben Dean]

It is a common workflow, they just have to relink the edited sequence to the original footage before grading etc. Post guys will know how this works. Pretty much as long as none of the versions are renamed different then the originals it's easy to swap them back and forth.

 

[Frank Cueto]

We do this a lot on our grading suite with a Baselight as well. You will have NO issues doing it. You will be able to bring your R3D's raw and mix it with the alexa footage no problem and on the same timeline. Be sure its a recent baselight and up to date. Some older baselights wont playback prores quicktimes (unless they are on the latest software OR have a Baselight Kompressor option)

 

[steve green]

We do this a lot on our grading suite with a Baselight as well. You will have NO issues doing it. You will be able to bring your R3D's raw and mix it with the alexa footage no problem and on the same timeline. Be sure its a recent baselight and up to date. Some older baselights wont playback prores quicktimes (unless they are on the latest software OR have a Baselight Kompressor option)

This is the answers we're looking for. I'm forwarding these to him now.....Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge with us, it's a huge help!

 

[Tom.Wong]

you really shouldn't have to worry about the finishing. more about shooting and getting the files into the edit properly. the finishing house will take care of the whole workflow. especially if they are running a baselight, spending all that money they should know what they are doing. (hopefully...)

 

[Michael Jensen]

Just make sure the timecode of the transcoded files match the original files timecode. Then all should be good.

 

[BigLu]

Steve Green
give me a call I can give you a hand in what to do to make them match
im in Camarillo much of the time in T.O.

(805) 822-9870
Luis

 

[steve green]

Steve Green
give me a call I can give you a hand in what to do to make them match
im in Camarillo much of the time in T.O.

(805) 822-9870
Luis

Nice to know I've got help nearby, thanks. This forum is wonderful!

 

[steve green]

Interestingly, today we found an AMA plug in for Avid which accesses the R3D files without importing them. It works in Avid with no issues that we can see. All our footage is able to be accessed in an Avid time line with no transcoding! What are we missing here?

 

[Tom.Wong]

long render times for effects. only working at a low debayer setting. slowing down the edit process. plus if it's a long form edit project that has to go through a lot of houses, ama falls apart with relinking media. transcode step is always advised. doing to a higher compression rate of dnxhd makes the edit smooth as butter whatever edit system you are on, and jumping form edit system to edit system you'll never have to do the reconnect dance of finding your media. lots of pros and cons to working native and doing the transcode step. you'll find that the editor will always prefer the dnxhd transcode step because they can always work so much faster without a massive render bar. always in your best interest to transcode on set if you got a tight deadline.

 

[steve green]

long render times for effects. only working at a low debayer setting. slowing down the edit process. plus if it's a long form edit project that has to go through a lot of houses, ama falls apart with relinking media. transcode step is always advised. doing to a higher compression rate of dnxhd makes the edit smooth as butter whatever edit system you are on, and jumping form edit system to edit system you'll never have to do the reconnect dance of finding your media. lots of pros and cons to working native and doing the transcode step. you'll find that the editor will always prefer the dnxhd transcode step because they can always work so much faster without a massive render bar. always in your best interest to transcode on set if you got a tight deadline.

Thanks again, Tom. Two things with this job....The producer/director edits the footage in house until he take it to the Baselight for color correction and it's pretty straight forward stuff, no effects to speak of. That being said, how do you think this AMA linking will work out? We're really looking for all the input we can get right now as we start this project.

 

[Tom.Wong]

my honest opinion, do the transcode step, on or off set, and work what avid wants to work with natively the best. finishing color be fine as long as you got a finishing/post house that knows what they are doing. but generally from what i've seen, the post house wants to edit as quickly as possible with no big render hiccups or instability in the software cause of maxed out bandwidth. working native is fine for personal or very short for projects, but the transcode step nearly guarantees the smoothest operation. as long as the dailies are made from the r3d and alexa pro res files directly and have matching file name/reel id/timecode. the conform to finishing color will be super smooth.

obviously it's also something you want to talk to the post house with to see if they are willing/can work natively the whole pipeline. but going to dnxhd will allow them to work on any system and have super smooth playback with slower computers and less need for such immense hard drive space/speed just to get the edit done with.

#1 thing is always talk to the post house to see what their edit specs are, I've honestly never had a post house tell me they'll work natively. and again for finishing color, that portion of the workflow you really shouldn't need to worry about. as long as dailies to edit match up in metadata and timecode there should be no issues. unless they are trying to take you for a ride...

 

[steve green]

my honest opinion, do the transcode step, on or off set, and work what avid wants to work with natively the best. finishing color be fine as long as you got a finishing/post house that knows what they are doing. but generally from what i've seen, the post house wants to edit as quickly as possible with no big render hiccups or instability in the software cause of maxed out bandwidth. working native is fine for personal or very short for projects, but the transcode step nearly guarantees the smoothest operation. as long as the dailies are made from the r3d and alexa pro res files directly and have matching file name/reel id/timecode. the conform to finishing color will be super smooth.

obviously it's also something you want to talk to the post house with to see if they are willing/can work natively the whole pipeline. but going to dnxhd will allow them to work on any system and have super smooth playback with slower computers and less need for such immense hard drive space/speed just to get the edit done with.

#1 thing is always talk to the post house to see what their edit specs are, I've honestly never had a post house tell me they'll work natively. and again for finishing color, that portion of the workflow you really shouldn't need to worry about. as long as dailies to edit match up in metadata and timecode there should be no issues. unless they are trying to take you for a ride...

More good information, Tom.....I'm passing it along now.