Intellectual Property from an Inventors POV

[Detlev Eller]

Intellectual Property is not depending on quantity, nor price, nor delivery timeline.

It is not depending on team size or money invested.

A development, a creation belongs to who invents it. really simple.

i can fully understand the hordes of "thieves" that are not able to come up with an original idea, thought or process.
I can fully understand, that many want to shine, make a profit, take advantage, have a quick fix.

It is easy to steal.

There is a HUGE difference between "stealing" ... or being inspired to improve a frustrating experience offered by a lesser product and improve on it.

The true inventor, respects legacy, acknowledges and knows about the painstaking efforts of "the other party".


What is disturbing to me is this: people these days go on the streets and protest for the right to share, easy access to and consume stolen stuff .... ridiculous.!
They proclaim, our cultural evolution is in danger .... crazy.

it is heartbreaking and bad.

... someone comes up with a great idea, a great improvement to life (as i did in software under the harshest conditions for 7 years, because i have decided to)
and then, the next burglar should be allowed to take it and make it his own?

Boys, i tell you, the stuff i have invented during the last years is so obvious, every one will make it their own, simplicity is so obvious in retrospect.

But funny enough, not a single of the major players did it (not adobe, not apple, not google) and i was desperately waiting for them, really.!!

So, simple story: no copyright protection, no software, people go on suffering ... very, very simple.

we MUST wake up to the reality of the inventor, the creator, the artist, the people that drive our future,
that entertain us, that improve our lifes with technology and media and provide for our well being.


we need protection. we need a better attitude from our audience and clients.

Any thoughts?

to a better future
cheers,

Detlev



P.S. ... http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?81684-To-invent-and-to-design

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

A development, a creation belongs to who invents it. really simple.

That's one way of looking at it, very popular in recent times.

The true inventor, respects legacy, acknowledges and knows about the painstaking efforts of "the other party".

Translation:

"I consider my duty as a born son of my country to help the City of Zagreb in every way through my advice and act"
- Nikola Tesla said in this building on May 24th, 1892 while proposing to the city council construction of alternating current plant.

Coming from a man who, regarding technology, made the modern world happen,

a man who ripped the contract entitling him to royalties from every modern Watt produced.

 

[Detlev Eller]

.... hmmm.

i had frequent 5 figure weeks and a very good "artist life" in the ninetees with my color grading, comps, looks and graphics for top blue chip brands. my work helped to win prizes, recognotion and repetitive business.

i shared my techniques. i even taugth them in university to media classes.

i was out of business in no time ... ;-) ...


in 2004 i have decided to fix the internet and build a "design software", fundamental stuff, i thought i give it one year. it turned into seven. i paid a very high price to get there. nothing to put on a public forum, but i am absolutely sure, that not a single person on the planet would do, what i did ... for the better good of all of us.

the only things i am asking are recognition and the right to monetize, to bring in the huge amounts of money, that i had to get from somewhere to pay for my research, technology and survive for 7 years of hardcore coding .... away from the world. now, please add some health issues, that i wouldn't wish to anyone.

so, in such a situation, as mine, inventing stuff to make a profit is the only way to go and provide.


i am really sensitive to "inventors rights" .... it is a lonely path to walk and stealing hurts, a lot, on many, many levels.



the reality is, that ideas are ripped of. similar ideas are also developed in different places. inspiration and evolution - all good.

as inventors, we are allways standing on the shoulders of giants, no doubt. there must be balance and reward, else its more interesting to read a good book rather than going through such pain in bringing things to life.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Detlev,

The website we are all discussing this on - reduser.net - is running Apache HTTP server (as do the majority of the worlds websites). It is and always has been free, given away for nothing, hacked on by many people all round the world. Likewise for BIND, which holds the internet together and enables us to communicate.

A lot of people make a LOT of money from these - and many other - freely given away programs.

All these programs are subject to copyright law, only with them it works the other way around; copyright law is used to prevent anyone taking exclusive control of them. Anyone can make money from them any way they can be smart enough to figure out, but no-one can do it *exclusively* or take control.

Sometimes it's about monetisation, and there's nothing wrong with that. But sometimes it's just about control. There's more than one path to this. You're a coder; would your big project have been easier, faster and more successful if you had open-sourced it and got many minds to hack on it?

Mike

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I feel like there is a difference that needs to be drawn in the sand between 'rent seeking' behavior and innovation. I also think that not all innovation is non-obvious but still is patented. I also believe that even if someone has a legal right sometimes it's in the inventor's best interest to open up portions to encourage peripheral innovation--and it behooves their friends to try and persuade them to take a better path. it's certainly not as cut and dry as 'sharing' good, property bad or vice versa. and the courts don't always rule in favor of the correct party since fighting a legal battle might be 50/50 in which case even a wronged inventor might be intimidated to protect their rights.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Detlev.
You know I love and support yor work, by now, and wholeheartedly hope you find a way to make it all happen. It is well deserved.

That said. There are at least 3 very valid POV's on this IMHO. As a general idea. Not in your particular case.

Yours
The open source (which is not about stealing, but sharing)
Inventions that surpasses... Whatever. Like "wheel" "shoes". Where it would be really preventive for the world if they were copyrighted.

I lived from copyrights the better part of my adult life, and know how important that can be to keep you working.
I am not against copyrights...

But - to some extent - we create because we have to, not because it is a smart way of living.
Then, in that next step, it depends on how we get those creations into the public, whether we directly or indirectly manage to monetize on our creations. And that is a totally different skillset.

I clearly recognize the madness in you and Jim and others. I am not saying the greatness. Just the drive.
And we all have to make a living, being through copyrights or spinoffs by sharing.


Sometimes the invention is so good that it is more important to Get it out and just see what happens.

Not suggesting that in your case, but as a general and philosophical answer to what is a general dilemma.

Not all is only good or bad.
When meeting a dilemma, we we either have to change the premises, control whether the premises are true or not, and if the premises are true, and the dilemma still persists, we need to look for exceptions.

That is not the same as denial or compromise.

Pretty Much like in coding, I guess...

One model does not fit all cases...

 

[Detlev Eller]

...
Sometimes it's about monetisation, and there's nothing wrong with that. But sometimes it's just about control. There's more than one path to this. You're a coder; would your big project have been easier, faster and more successful if you had open-sourced it and got many minds to hack on it?

Mike

Mike,

thanks for your thoughts and joining the discussion ...


i think there are many, many good things to say about open source.
And some are not so good.

Let´s see. for one, i think the "status quo" web software does not work, because to many people work on it. its not coherent. buggy everywhere. big brand names. small websites. same trouble.

then, i use to say: open source = open hack.

I am well connected to a major player in the hosting space and have information about hacking activities and successes first hand. not a desirable thing in my world.

So yes, it is about control. controlling a secure, reliable user experience.


I must say, i would really LOVE to give access to my tools, for free. Because it would create a better web experience, created by designers, rather than technicians.

I have not figured out, how to do it .... without compromising on the user experience .... (ads seem to annoy all of us to some degree, especially if one is running a business site)

But the reality is, that computers cost money, clouds a bit more ... ;-) .... fat broadband connections run in the thousands per month ... now let´s multiply this for geo replication and maintain datacenters and the picture becomes clearer ... not so free anymore, isn´t it ...

I am in Berlin now, some say, the heart of internet innovation and the new sister to silicon valley.

I see and talk to startups. i hear, people investing months in a new feature, and days after release, there are rip-offs.

I guess, proper IP protection is a good way to go, to shut up the "lazy copy cats" and nurture the innovators and have some issues fixed. It would also help to brand the innovators, which i think is a right to us. With the copy cat velocity, it is often difficult to see where innovation is coming from and "branding" is difficult.

Well, for the underdog that is.

For now, that is the approach i have chosen and it creates a huge delay .... (and lost revenues for sure) ... so, i may change direction in the future ...

Again, thanks for joining the conversation!

Detlev

 

[Detlev Eller]

I feel like there is a difference that needs to be drawn in the sand between 'rent seeking' behavior and innovation. I also think that not all innovation is non-obvious but still is patented. I also believe that even if someone has a legal right sometimes it's in the inventor's best interest to open up portions to encourage peripheral innovation--and it behooves their friends to try and persuade them to take a better path. it's certainly not as cut and dry as 'sharing' good, property bad or vice versa. and the courts don't always rule in favor of the correct party since fighting a legal battle might be 50/50 in which case even a wronged inventor might be intimidated to protect their rights.

.... agreed, Gavin ... (!)

 

[Detlev Eller]

Thanks Gunleik, as you know, i agree with you and love your support!

Often, i have this rush energy in me, that curiosity, that mad drive that says: "what if i just release it and see what happens!" .... lol
It´s quite a thrill.

then business sense kicks in. And i stop last minute.

The issue with a baby like this is, that as a father, one wants it to live and shine and be protected and at the same time delighting the world ...

I guess, a big deal of me "holding back" has to do with experience. i am certainly lacking the experience of a major product launch, that i could build and trust upon.

And i´ve got plenty of experience in being ripped of or copied, and i must say it sucks ... lol

Having said so, i am really open for suggestions and insights. If anyone, guest readers included, with experience, insight or ideas about how to initiate and sustain a major revolution, i would like to hear from you ... please join the discussion here and have it "open sourced" .... ...

cheers,

Detlev

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Detlev,

The website we are all discussing this on - reduser.net - is running Apache HTTP server (as do the majority of the worlds websites). It is and always has been free, given away for nothing, hacked on by many people all round the world. Likewise for BIND, which holds the internet together and enables us to communicate.

A lot of people make a LOT of money from these - and many other - freely given away programs.

Mike

I would just make a note about this though. Apache isn't really in my opinion an example of innovation or invention being protected so much as just blood and sweat. Open source seems to prosper when there is a clearly defined and broadly understood goal such as "properly respond to http requests". There isn't a lot to innovate in that regard, the goal isn't to offer something new--in fact it's exactly the opposite it's to conform as carefully and accurately as possible to a standard.

I think a lot of Open Source software advocates get frustrated when they look at something like Apache which is hugely successful but then see something like Linux which fails to thrive. The largest differentiation in my opinion (besides one being designed by developers for developers) is that a web server is a internationally standardized product whose operation can be empirically measured against the reference specifications and a product which requires innovation to stay successful.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Intellectual Property is not depending on quantity, nor price, nor delivery timeline.

It is not depending on team size or money invested.

A development, a creation belongs to who invents it. really simple.

i can fully understand the hordes of "thieves" that are not able to come up with an original idea, thought or process.
I can fully understand, that many want to shine, make a profit, take advantage, have a quick fix.

It is easy to steal.

There is a HUGE difference between "stealing" ... or being inspired to improve a frustrating experience offered by a lesser product and improve on it.

The true inventor, respects legacy, acknowledges and knows about the painstaking efforts of "the other party".


What is disturbing to me is this: people these days go on the streets and protest for the right to share, easy access to and consume stolen stuff .... ridiculous.!
They proclaim, our cultural evolution is in danger .... crazy.

it is heartbreaking and bad.

... someone comes up with a great idea, a great improvement to life (as i did in software under the harshest conditions for 7 years, because i have decided to)
and then, the next burglar should be allowed to take it and make it his own?

Boys, i tell you, the stuff i have invented during the last years is so obvious, every one will make it their own, simplicity is so obvious in retrospect.

But funny enough, not a single of the major players did it (not adobe, not apple, not google) and i was desperately waiting for them, really.!!

So, simple story: no copyright protection, no software, people go on suffering ... very, very simple.

we MUST wake up to the reality of the inventor, the creator, the artist, the people that drive our future,
that entertain us, that improve our lifes with technology and media and provide for our well being.


we need protection. we need a better attitude from our audience and clients.

Any thoughts?

to a better future
cheers,

Detlev



P.S. ... http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?81684-To-invent-and-to-design

Well said. I applaud your post.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Detlev,

The website we are all discussing this on - reduser.net - is running Apache HTTP server (as do the majority of the worlds websites). It is and always has been free, given away for nothing, hacked on by many people all round the world. Likewise for BIND, which holds the internet together and enables us to communicate.

A lot of people make a LOT of money from these - and many other - freely given away programs.

All these programs are subject to copyright law, only with them it works the other way around; copyright law is used to prevent anyone taking exclusive control of them. Anyone can make money from them any way they can be smart enough to figure out, but no-one can do it *exclusively* or take control.

Sometimes it's about monetisation, and there's nothing wrong with that. But sometimes it's just about control. There's more than one path to this. You're a coder; would your big project have been easier, faster and more successful if you had open-sourced it and got many minds to hack on it?

Mike

Sounds lovely. That said, not a way to feed your family from your work.

We also forget, when someone competes with something free, they put everybody else out of business.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Sounds lovely. That said, not a way to feed your family from your work.

We also forget, when someone competes with something free, they put everybody else out of business.

It also sometimes frees up workers to stop reinventing the wheel though too.

 

[Zeb B]

Detlev,

Love the passion, enthusiasm and simple world view of good & evil, right & wrong . . . but . . . "Everything is a Remix":

http://vimeo.com/14912890
http://vimeo.com/19447662
http://vimeo.com/25380454
http://vimeo.com/36881035

You have not done anything that was not somehow inspired, started or enhanced by others. i certainly don't lose sleep knowing that my creative and innovative self is heavily shaped by others. True for Apple, True for RED, True for WC, True for the real smart Scientists working on the Higgs Bason project.

Over 20 years I authored about 20 utility Patents. My work, like everyone before or since, was incremental and improvement over what was already in the market. If I didn't "invent" a certain something - then someone else would have in time. Patent laws don't protect innovation - they reward those with big lawyer budgets and a strategy of aggression. As an innovator the cost to defend your patent starts at about $250K - not an exercise for the common Joe. Speed to market, creative destruction (shit canning your own best sellers) and operational excellence is what wins in the long run - not camping out on generic design patents or milking archaic music distribution business models etc and suing folks to limit competition.

Check out what Louis CK has done recently through innovative distribution to keep his art producing revenue. Hint: it didn't involve hiring a team of DRM lawyers or bending over for TicketMaster

http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/10/sabo/
http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...-tickets-on-his-website-for-flat-fee-20120626

 

[Detlev Eller]

Josh! ... thank you ... i do totally agree, that we and our inventions are product of heritage. 100%.
It is the element of improvement, that is worth the recognition.

I think, there is just a tiny little difference, between "something" ... and "something really beautiful, useful, extraordinary, super efficient". To create that difference - takes either "genius inspiration" or hard work .... probably both most of the time.

in retrospect, i would say, it would have been better for the product to get out into the world and create a platform, back in 2004/2005 ...

the fact that in 2012, everything "web design and systems" is still done in the same "complicated, resource wasting time" and no one is coming up with the obvious,
tells me that i have put something together, that is worth protecting .... protection creates the asset, "free" sharing on the web is a mere invitation for "pirates" with a wider reach.

I want adoption, i want people to use it, to imitate, to improve on it and make me smile, i really do!

I say it again: I have been thinking, hard thinking, throwing away hundreds of approaches, thousands lines of code, reinventing, condensing and reaching "impossible" goals.

All by reducing my personal life´s pleasures and needs to the bare minimum, for 7 years! ... somewhere in the lonely desert, in an old cow stable (true!), as i used to say.

the real issue i see is this:
The concepts and tools i have created work perfectly well in concert. it needs a little bit of mental reframing, to get the simplicity of it. then its pure power. pure speed. a couple of hours of training. and people are ready to go and add there own. In the first 5 years of "the web" (1995-2000), the web technology has been massively abused, big time, people went down the wrong track - and still do.

In my heart, i want to shout it out, make videos, explain and share for it would create a better web and a better life for us online citizen. (didn´t want to write online junkies ... lol)

I guess, with the right partner, a global player with wide reach, i would favor that approach, get everything out and go back to what i love from my soul, making beautiful images and "finding the story".

I just do not want to do it "half" ... wouldn´t be right. .... and after all, what motivated me to push through the years, was the outlook of producing my pictures independently ... so, i need that "fix" ....

cheers to all,
thanks for contributing

)

 

[Detlev Eller]

... regarding open source, heritage and attribution:

I do use apache, mysql, php, jquery. the bare minimum of it. excellent peer work, BIG THANK YOU, without, i could not have done what i did.
I have studied countless books, about the technology, CSS, HTML and so forth.

Without the accumulated thinking, research, code work and distribution of these authors and their works, i would do something else. (probably shooting pictures, ouch!)

Although i think, that these technologies could be vastly simplified and reduced to speed up thinks. they are blown up, catering to the infinite ways and needs(?) of millions(?) of web masters, web designers and so forth ...

It´s to big. to complex. easy to get lost, to forget, to do something wrong. to much for one brain.

So, i thought, how about reducing it, to the bare minimum, finding the repetitive stuff, structure it different, so that the output always works, everything is in place,
all dependencies are properly set ... and so forth ... and then, create powerful tools on top, that reflect the way an artist or designer approaches problems - which is usually infinitely more elegant and useful compared to a code nerd... ;-) ...

Guess, the answer is in the right balance.

Uhh, would love to have it out and move on!!!!

 

[Detlev Eller]

... Over 20 years I authored about 20 utility Patents. My work, like everyone before or since, was incremental and improvement over what was already in the market. ...

AWESOME!

... Speed to market, creative destruction (shit canning your own best sellers) and operational excellence is what wins in the long run ...

Josh, I´d love to hear more about this!

 

[Detlev Eller]

... anyone got a link into Google management? ... please PM me ... thanks!