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RED 17-50 vs Zeiss ZE (25,50,85)

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Alexey Datsenko

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Could you tell me please what is better for EPIC and cinema movies?

1. RED 17-50 (6K USD) or
2. Zeiss ZE (25,50,85) (arround 5K)
3. Or buy one lense CP.2 (50 mm) and take in rent 25 or 85 mm.

Thank you
 
Buy the ZOOM...

Same F stops and you get a pin sharp... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 21, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 & 50mm lens...

Only buy primes if the lenses have F stops lower than F2...

Oh... don;t forget the 50 to 150......
You get another 50mm and a %1, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, .............................. all the way upto 150mm.. All at f2.8

Live long and prosper :)
 
But red doesn't sell a 50-150 anymore :( please red, let us know you're working on a v2 version just like the 17-50, please?
 
I have both the 17-50 red pro zoom and a set of zeiss zf primes: Same lenses, just in nikon mount. The red zoom is useful for fast setup and reframing for an exterior or indoor lit shoot. It's reasonably sharp and is a great price for a pl zoom. It does breathe quite a bit but that's not always an issue. The zeiss lenses on the other hand are faster and sometimes you just need those extra few stops.
I'm not sure what you mean by the red zoom giving a more cinematic look. Either lens will give you that if you light and frame correctly.
It's tough to make a general recommendation as it really depends on your shooting style. I've been shooting a fairly low budget travel show with minimal equipment on my epic and decided to use my nikon mount as I could have a lighter package. Here's what I brought: nikon 17-35/2.8, zeiss 35/2. zeiss 50/1.4, zeiss 85/1.4, sigma 70-200/2.8 apo DG. I couldn't have transported that range of lenses in PL mount.
When I shoot in the studio, I may use a cinema zoom, my set of compact primes or other PL lenses.. There's no one lens that will do everything for you. What do you plan on shooting? Movies? music videos? Corporate?
 
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Shane Kelly said:
I have both the 17-50 red pro zoom and a set of zeiss zf primes: Same lenses, just in nikon mount. The red zoom is useful for fast setup and reframing for an exterior or indoor lit shoot. It's reasonably sharp and is a great price for a pl zoom. It does breathe quite a bit but that's not always an issue. The zeiss lenses on the other hand are faster and sometimes you just need those extra few stops.
I'm not sure what you mean by the red zoom giving a more cinematic look. Either lens will give you that if you light and frame correctly.
It's tough to make a general recommendation as it really depends on your shooting style. I've been shooting a fairly low budget travel show with minimal equipment on my epic and decided to use my nikon mount as I could have a lighter package. Here's what I brought: nikon 17-35/2.8, zeiss 35/2. zeiss 50/1.4, zeiss 85/1.4, sigma 70-200/2.8 apo DG. I couldn't have transported that range of lenses in PL mount.
When I shoot in the studio, I may use a cinema zoom, my set of compact primes or other PL lenses.. There's no one lens that will do everything for you. What do you plan on shooting? Movies? music videos? Corporate?
Click to expand...

Thank you Shane!

I am planning to shoot cinema and in the best way I want to get such kind of picture





But I think it is possible only with Ultra Primes or Master for example.

I mean the footage from RED 17-50 and RPP are very similar to "film look".
For example How do you think is it possible to get such kind of "film look? picture like with Zeiss ZE this ( I mean faces not beer)


But video from Zeiss ZE (it is the best example I have found) it is very similar to "film look" but not so good like old movies (not very saturation and some dingy like in old movies of 80-th years).
Maybe the metter is not in lense and just need to make good post.



Or look at this red truck on 00:45 it is CP.2 it is so saturation.

http://vimeo.com/24859321

Maybe buy one CP.2 for example 50 mm for most shots and then take in rent 25 or 85!
 
Honestly I think you are giving the lenses too much credit.
Theres a huge amount of variables that change your footage until it gets to your screen. You spoke about color saturation. I bet you that there was an artistic decision in post to saturate/desaturated colors. And it goes on and on.
having owned a set of ZF primes and now owning the 17-50, they are all great glass. They are all sharp, and similar color rendition.
one thing I preferred on my ZF's was lens flares. Shoot a light source and it looks great on those. That's tougher on any zoom lens. It depends also on the focal length you might have set up on your zoom.
basicaly any modern "quality" lens will give you great looking pictures. It depends more on how you light it, frame it, block it, how your locations look and so on.
your decision should be more, IMHO, on functionality: do you need flexibility to change the focal length without changing lenses? Do you need smaller and lighter lenses?
Either way you go, you can't go wrong with these lenses. Good luck!
 
Alexey, as Daniel has said, you are putting too much faith in the lenses. Although each lens has certain characteristics, much of what you are seeing, especially saturation, is post based. If you like shallow depth of field, then you would want to go for the zeiss lenses as they are faster but the pro zoom is a great all around lens and will serve you well.
here's a couple of examples from both the zeiss 85 and the red prozoom.
first the zeiss:
attachment.php


and now the zoom:
attachment.php


Both lenses have a place, it's really up to you.
 
Alexey Datsenko said:
Thank you!
I see the lense is not everything but I just try go get such kind of picture:)
But may be it is need a very expensive lence)

http://vimeo.com/32689183
Click to expand...

Not a good example of filmic look there.

Lenses will give you softness, sharpness, contrast, coloration, bokeh and light fidelity. It is well known that the Zeis ZE/ZF range are very sharp and contrasty compared to the nicer CP.2 line. The red lenses are super sharp but not quite as contrasty, they are actually quite flat retaining good detail. Just for this feature I have used Red lenses on other cameras including the F3 and Alexa. The CP.2 lenses will give you instant filmic sexiness, but are a little slow at higher stop ranges. The ZE lenses breath like a fish out of water, but are great for indoor and night scenes. They also have no infinity focus, but are very easy and very fast to use on an epic or scarlet. For a filmic look get your self a good DP or Gaffer. A lot of the examples you referenced are not really that filmic looking except for one or two. filmic is relative to light in the scene. The are thousands of 35mm and 16mm films that are not filmic or should I say cinematic.
 
Thank you, I see the picture from 50/2 and it is very interesting picture, very good saturation good contrast!
 
I like the boca on the ziess lenses better. Like everyone else said, depends on your shooting style. If your pressed for time on set up in between shots and on a limited budget. Get the zoom, you'll spend way less set up time. Just move the camera and reframe the shot. If your rocking a set of primes, your going to have to switch the lenses out which takes up valuable time. Also consider the style of shooting that your doing, like if your on a shoulder rig or a stedicam you want the load light as possible and the prime lenses will save a ton of weight. On sticks? rock the zoom.

Like I said though, both great lenses. You really can't go wrong. Just take everything into effect.

Cheers
 
shashbugu said:
Not a good example of filmic look there.

Lenses will give you softness, sharpness, contrast, coloration, bokeh and light fidelity. It is well known that the Zeis ZE/ZF range are very sharp and contrasty compared to the nicer CP.2 line. The red lenses are super sharp but not quite as contrasty, they are actually quite flat retaining good detail. Just for this feature I have used Red lenses on other cameras including the F3 and Alexa. The CP.2 lenses will give you instant filmic sexiness, but are a little slow at higher stop ranges. The ZE lenses breath like a fish out of water, but are great for indoor and night scenes. They also have no infinity focus, but are very easy and very fast to use on an epic or scarlet. For a filmic look get your self a good DP or Gaffer. A lot of the examples you referenced are not really that filmic looking except for one or two. filmic is relative to light in the scene. The are thousands of 35mm and 16mm films that are not filmic or should I say cinematic.
Click to expand...
Thanks!
May be it is not really good "film look" picture but to tell the truth I will be happy to get such kind of picture.
I just worried that I can't get a very good cinematic picture with ZE. But everybody tells that the Zeiss ZE, RED RPP, Red 17-50, CP.2 is very similar.
 
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